[00:00:05]
CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER AND ASK FOR ATTENDANCE. TERRIFIC.
[1. Call Meeting to Order]
WE WILL TAKE ATTENDANCE BY THE SIGN IN SHEET.[4.A Alley Access Lots]
OUR CONVERSATION ON ALLEY ACCESS LAWS. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT PLENTY OF TIMES.ROB WINIECKE, HE IS THE DIRECTOR OF INFRASTRUCTURE AND ENGINEERING IS JOINING US TODAY.
SO WE'LL CONTINUE WITH OUR SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS AND SEE WHAT COMMENTS THAT ROB HAS FOR US.
I APOLOGIZE FOR THE TYPOS. IT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DO THINGS IN HASTE.
SO I WANTED TO GET THAT OUT TO YOU GUYS. GOT THAT INFORMATION, BUT CATHERINE DID SHARE WITH ME A SET OF SLIDES THAT YOU GUYS HAVE TODAY TO LOOK AT, AND I DIDN'T REALLY HAVE A TON OF TIME TO PREPARE FOR IT BECAUSE I WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF GETTING ALL MY STAFF REPORTS READY FOR NEXT WEEK'S COUNCIL MEETING.
I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S A NICE CHARACTERISTIC TO IT AND EVERYTHING, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE ALLEY, THE WAY I SEE IT IS A SERVICE ENTRANCE FOR GETTING TO YOUR HOUSE TO GO AHEAD AND ACCESS YOUR GARAGE OR YOUR LOT GET YOUR UTILITIES FROM THERE.
BECAUSE FOR THE MOST PART, IN THE AREAS WHERE WE HAVE ALLEYS, WE'VE GOT UTILITIES IN THERE, WATER, SEWER, FOR SURE. AND THEN YOU ALSO HAVE ELECTRICITY, TELEPHONE, WHATEVER MAY BE SERVICING THOSE PROPERTIES.
AND THE MORE WE UTILIZE THOSE, I MEAN, THEY'RE MOSTLY THEY'RE GRAVEL ALLEYS RIGHT NOW.
NOT DESIGNED FOR SMOOTH FLOW TO GET, YOU KNOW, SPEEDS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
AND I KNOW THERE WERE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT SPEEDING AND OTHER THINGS IN THE ALLEYS.
BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK OF IT AS JUST LIKE A DRIVEWAY FOR THE MOST PART, AND A PLACE FOR US TO BE ABLE TO COLLECT YOUR TRASH, GET YOUR UTILITIES. AND THE MORE TRAFFIC WE PUT IN THERE, THE MORE BUILDING WE HAVE ALONG THAT STARTS TO PUSH THOSE ENCROACHMENTS OUT INTO THE AREA WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE YOUR VEHICLES TRAVELING. AND WHEN WE'RE PUTTING IN WATER METER BOXES THERE NOWADAYS, THEY'RE A POLYETHYLENE TYPE MATERIAL. SO A HEAVIER DUTY PLASTIC JUST WANTING IT WORKS WELL FOR OUR ENVIRONMENT.
GRANTED, THEY HOLD UP FAIRLY WELL TO VEHICULAR TRAFFIC, BUT OVER TIME THESE BECOME BRITTLE TOO, AND THEY CAN GO AHEAD AND BE DAMAGED BY TIRES GOING OVER THEM AND OTHER THINGS.
YEAH, THAT KIND OF WORKS PRETTY WELL. BUT AGAIN, AS THEY COME FURTHER OUT INTO THE TRAVEL WAY WHERE SOMEBODY SAY THERE'S A VEHICLE PARKED, SOMEBODY'S GOING AROUND THEM, SOMEBODY'S VEHICLE HITS IT.
THESE ARE JUST PVC THAT GETS BRITTLE PRETTY QUICK AND THEY CRACK.
AND THAT'S A BAD THING BECAUSE WE HAVE TO TREAT THAT WATER AS WELL AS SEWAGE.
AND YOU GET TOO MUCH CLEAN WATER, WHICH, YOU KNOW, NOT WASTEWATER.
AT THAT POINT. IT ACTUALLY DAMAGES OUR TREATMENT PROCESS.
SO WE COULD HAVE OVERFLOWS. OVERFLOWS ARE BAD FOR US FROM OUR STANDPOINT BECAUSE IT REQUIRES AN INVESTIGATION, FOLLOW UP AND MOST OFTEN A FINE. AND THE FINES ARE NOT CHEAP.
SO WE TRY TO AVOID THAT WHERE WE CAN. SO THOSE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT.
SO THE WATER METERS ARE ON THE LOT CORRECT. YES.
AND SO NOW YOU'VE GOT TWO LOTS. SO THAT WOULD MOST LIKELY MEAN THAT THE WATER METER FOR THE, THE MAIN STREET IS ON THE PROPERTY OF THE OTHER LOT.
SO WE'RE ENCOUNTERING A LOT OF THIS WHERE PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO SUBDIVIDE THEIR LOTS, WHETHER IT'S WIDTHWISE OR LENGTHWISE, AND HAVE TWO LOTS THERE. WHAT WE'RE REQUIRING IN THAT CASE, IF THERE'S NO ALLEYS OFF OF THE FRONT.
SO IT BASICALLY CREATES AN ENCUMBRANCE ON THAT LOT WHERE ONE THEY HAVE LESS ROOM TO BUILD, BUT TWO KIND OF GIVES THAT PROTECTED RIGHT FOR THAT NEIGHBOR TO DO IT.
THE REASON WE'VE STARTED DOING THAT IS WE DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF HAVING LONG SERVICE LINES IN THE RIGHT OF WAY, BECAUSE THAT'S MORE FOR THE CITY TO MAINTAIN.
AND ALSO, IT'S HARDER TO GO AHEAD AND DEAL WITH BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT GRADE ISSUES.
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YOU KNOW, IF OUR SEWER LINES THREE FOOT DEEP OR FOUR FOOT DEEP AT THE PROPERTY LINE, AND HERE YOU ARE TRYING TO GO 100 FOOT ONE WAY AND 200 FOOT THE OTHER DIRECTION, GETTING MINIMUM SLOPE TO MAINTAIN FLOW IS REALLY CHALLENGING AT THAT POINT.AND SO THE WATER LINES IN THE ALLEY. SO WHEN THE WHEN THE LOT IS SUBDIVIDED AND YOU HAVE TO PLACE A NEW METER, YOU'RE DIGGING UP THE ALLEY TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
SAME THING WITH THE SEWER AS WELL. YEAH. AND AS FAR AS YOU'RE CONCERNED, THE LESS DISTANCE YOU CAN GO WITH YOUR SERVICE SIDE, THE BETTER. YES. CORRECT. SO THAT'S WHERE YOU GET INTO THAT PROBLEM WITH THE DIVISIONS OF THESE LOTS.
CORRECT. YEAH. YEAH. DO WE HAVE ANY NUMBERS ON, LIKE, WHAT THESE THINGS MIGHT COST THE CITY ON A YEARLY BASIS, HAVING TO DO EXTRA OR HAVE EXTRA WATER COME IN, OR HAVE WE EVER DID THAT? I KNOW THEY TRACK IT ON THE UTILITY SIDE. I DON'T HAVE THAT DATA WITH ME.
WE CAN TRY TO LOOK. WE COULD, I'M SURE, LIKE A DOLLAR NUMBER.
WE PROBABLY GET SOME GENERAL IDEA OF A DOLLAR TO IT.
SO ANOTHER THING THAT COMES INTO PLAY AGAIN, WE'RE TALKING ALLEYS AND THEY HAVE THE UTILITY LINES, RIGHT? I KIND OF FOCUS ON THINGS THAT ARE UNDERGROUND, BUT YOU HAVE THE OVERHEAD.
YOU'VE GOT ELECTRIC TELECOMMUNICATIONS, TELECOMMUNICATIONS, NOT SO MUCH.
BUT A LOT OF TIMES, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT THESE THINGS ON STICKS AND THEN YOU'VE GOT THIS BIG STRAW BASICALLY HERE'S YOUR UTILITY AND THEN THEY'VE GOT THIS BIG VOLUME AROUND IT THAT YOU HAVE TO PROTECT, RIGHT.
KEEP YOUR TREES OUT OF IT. AND WHEN PEOPLE DON'T, THEY COME IN FROM TREES AND THEY HACK YOUR TREE TO DEATH. RIGHT. THEY GOT TWO TREES FROM ONE STEM YEAH. TYPE OF DEAL. IT DOESN'T LOOK VERY GOOD.
SO THAT'S ANOTHER POTENTIAL ISSUE THAT I SEE AS BEING AN ISSUE AND CONCERN.
AND NOW SO THERE'S ZERO SETBACK TO THE ALLEY.
INTERESTING. RIGHT. SO THAT'S ANOTHER CONCERN THERE.
AND THEN THE OTHER THING, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, A THING THAT I PERSONALLY STRUGGLE WITH IS IF YOU HAVE A BACK LOT AND YOU GOT A FRONT LOT AND THERE'S THEY'RE ONLY TAKING ACCESS OFF THE ALLEY.
HOW DO YOU ADDRESS THAT PROPERTY. YOU KNOW, DO YOU ADDRESS IT FOR THE POSTAL SERVICES OR FOR EMERGENCY SERVICES? OFF THE ALLEY. OR DO YOU CALL IT SOMETHING REAR? HOWEVER IT IS. RIGHT. OKAY. AND THAT'S KIND OF HAPPENED IN THE PAST.
SO SOME SORT OF INGRESS AND EGRESS, RIGHT. THAT'S REALLY A BIG CONCERN TOO.
AND THOSE COULD BE OVERGROWN. SO YOU MIGHT MISS IT ALTOGETHER.
OR IT COULD LOOK LIKE SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, THEIR GARDEN TYPE OF DEAL ENTRANCE VERSUS.
SO HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THAT. SO THERE ARE SOME CONCERNS THAT I'VE.
AND SO WE HAD AN ISSUE. AND SO SOME OF IT WOULD BE SPECULATIVE, BUT SOME OF IT WOULD BE JUST COMMON PRACTICE, JUST LOOKING AT WHAT THE ISSUES ARE AND KNOWING WHAT THE CODES ARE AND SAYING, NO, YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE AROUND THIS.
YOU KNOW, LISTING SAY, THIS IS A PROBLEM HERE, HERE AND HERE.
I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF WE WERE, LIKE, ACTIVELY RUNNING INTO THIS NOW OR IF WE'RE KIND OF TRYING TO HEAD OFF SOMETHING, TRYING TO HEAD IT OFF AS FAST AS WHAT IT IS. SO WHEN YOU HAVE THESE ISSUES WHERE YOU'VE GOT TWO LOTS, THEY WANT TO DIVIDE IT INTO FOUR. SO TWO FRONTS AND TWO BACKS. WE'VE REQUIRED AN INGRESS EGRESS EASEMENT OF FIVE FOOT WIDE ALONG THE FRONT PROPERTIES TO GET TO THE BACK ONE, SO THAT AT LEAST GAVE YOU ENOUGH FOR A WALKWAY AND A POSTAL BOX TYPE OF DEAL OUT OF THE STREET.
OKAY, SO GOING BACK TO THE UTILITY TAPS THE SANITARY SEWER? YES. ARE YOU MAKING ANOTHER TAP INTO THE MAIN LINE, OR ARE YOU DOING A WIRE OFF THE EXISTING? TYPICALLY IT WOULD GO INTO THE SEWER DIRECTLY.
OKAY. BECAUSE IF WE DON'T GO AHEAD AND REPLACE IT ALL THE WAY TO THE MAIN.
NOW YOU HAVE AN OLD. IT COULD BE LEAKING FOR THAT LAST FIVE FEET OR HOWEVER LONG IT IS.
WE'D LIKE TO HAVE THAT GOOD CONTINUITY FROM THE SERVICE ALL THE WAY TO THE.
SO. SO THE CHARGE TO THE BUILDER HAS GOT TO BE A LOT HIGHER ON THAT AS OPPOSED TO A SUBDIVISION, YOU KNOW, WHERE THEY'VE GOT THEIR SANITARY LEADS STICKING UP OUT OF THE GROUND. IT'S EASY.
CONNECTION IS A LITTLE EASIER. YEAH. SO AND CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THE DRAINAGE.
WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE DRAINAGE WHICH TYPICALLY GOES TO THE STREET.
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CORRECT. IDEALLY THE DRAINAGE IS SET TO DRAIN FROM THE BACK OF THE LOT TO THE FRONT.SO IT GOES TO THE STREET RIGHT AWAY. AND IN MOST CASES THAT WORKS.
BUT SEVERAL AREAS OVER HERE AND I THINK 14TH STREET, AVENUE, AVENUE AND SOMEWHERE IN THAT AREA WHERE THE ALLEY IS HIGHER, THE PROPERTY IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT IS LOWER, AND THEY HAVE DRAINAGE ISSUES WHERE ANY WATER THAT COLLECTS ON THE ALLEY SHEDS OFF AND IT DRAINS INTO THEIR YARD AND GOES INTO THEIR GARAGE. WE'VE GONE OUT THERE A COUPLE DIFFERENT TIMES TO TRY AND HELP DO SOME GRADING OF THE ALLEY, TO ALLOW THAT WATER TO DRAIN OUT BEFORE IT ACTUALLY GOES INTO THAT YARD.
BUT YES, IT IS AN ISSUE SO MUCH LIKE THE TALK OF KIND OF AN INGRESS EGRESS EASEMENT.
DRAINAGE EASEMENT MAY BE NEEDED IN SOME OF THOSE INSTANCES TOO.
SO LIKE BASICALLY WHEN YOU WHEN YOU LAY A NEW BUILDING DOWN, THEN THERE THERE GOES YOUR WATERSHED.
AND SO YOU DON'T HAVE AS MUCH AREA. SO BASICALLY THERE NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING IN PLACE.
I GUESS WE COULD SAY TO MAKE SURE THAT THE ELEVATION WILL ALLOW FOR DRAINAGE.
WE, YOU KNOW, ON THE WEST END. I KNOW WE DO HAVE TO SEE SOMETHING, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANYTHING IN THE INTERIOR PART OF THE CITY WHERE WE WHEN IT'S NOT AGAINST THE GULF, WHERE WE HAVE TO SEE HOW THE DRAINAGE IS, IS THERE.
YEAH. THERE IS. SO AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT.
YEAH, YEAH, WE LOOK AT IT FOR ALL OF THEM. SO THERE'S A NEW DEVELOPMENT YOU KNOW THE WAY IT'S KIND OF LOOKED AT RIGHT NOW IS IF IT'S THE FULL LOT OR WHATEVER LOT IT IS, THEY HAVE TO RESERVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF SIDE OR AREA ALONG THE SIDE PROPERTY LINES.
SO THAT EXISTS WHETHER YOU'RE ON THE WEST END OR THE EAST END.
SO THAT'S THERE TODAY. BUT FOR THE, YOU KNOW, A REAR PROPERTY TO A FRONT PROPERTY THAT MAY HAVE TO MAKE IT WIDER ON THE FRONT PROPERTY TO ACCOMMODATE WATER FOR TWO LOT TWO HOUSES NOW.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE CONSIDERED. THE WAY WE HANDLE THE DRAINAGE REVIEWS ON THOSE INDIVIDUAL LOTS, IT IS FAIRLY DIFFERENT FROM THE EAST TO THE WEST IN THE SENSE THAT THE, THE WEST END HAS NEWER PLATTED SUBDIVISIONS.
THEY HAD GRADING PLANS WITH THOSE SUBDIVISIONS THAT WERE APPROVED.
AND AS LONG AS PEOPLE ARE FOLLOWING, YOU KNOW, THE GRADING PLAN THAT'S IN THE SUBDIVISION.
CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS. WE REALLY DON'T NEED TO DO A FULL REVIEW OF THAT.
IT'S I MEAN, IT'S IT'S ASSUMED TO IT'S ASSUMED TO BE, YOU KNOW, FUNCTIONAL UNLESS WE FIND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME ISSUE WITH IT THAT HAS SINCE MADE IT NONFUNCTIONAL FOR SOME REASON.
BUT THE EAST END IS SORT OF, YOU KNOW, SORT OF A CUSTOMER VIEW ON EACH LOT.
YOU HAVE TO SORT OF REALLY LOOK AT THE SPECIFICS OF THE LOT.
SO, SO THERE ARE A LOT MORE TIME CONSUMING AS WELL.
BUT OR I'M SURE ROB WOULD TELL YOU THAT, BUT THEY HAVE SOMETHING I THINK WE HEARD AT OUR LAST MEETING THAT YOU DID A COUNT OF THE NUMBER, AND WAS IT 77, 177, 177? THEY'RE GENERALLY LOCATED FROM SIXTH STREET TO 61ST STREET.
WE REALLY DON'T HAVE ALLEYS OUTSIDE OF THAT, EXCEPT FOR SOME OF OUR TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOODS, WHICH ARE NEW DEVELOPMENTS LIKE AVILA AND BEACH TOWN.
SO FUN FACTS ABOUT ALIENS. WOULD IT WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO KNOW HOW MANY ARE UNDER 2500FT²? BECAUSE THEN WE REALLY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THEM AT ALL, RIGHT? IN THAT CASE, THEY'RE NOT BUILT.
YOU CAN'T BUILD ANYTHING ON THEM. YOU CAN. SO IF YOU HAVE AN EXISTING LOT THAT'S UNDER THE 2500, WHICH IS STANDARD FOR MOST OF THE AREA EAST OF 61ST STREET, YOU CAN BUILD ON IT.
YOU CAN'T CREATE A NEW LOT THAT'S UNDER. OH, OKAY, I GOTCHA.
OR YOU CAN GO TO THE ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND ASK FOR A VARIANCE TO REDUCE YOUR LOT SIZE.
SO IT'S IT'S KIND OF YOU'D HAVE TO GO THROUGH A PROCESS.
BUT IN THEORY YOU COULD. YES. IF YOU HAVE AN EXISTING LOT THAT'S UNDER 2500, YOU CAN BUILD.
OKAY. AND REMEMBER OUR TWO REGULATIONS THAT ADDRESS THIS EARLY ACCESS ISSUE.
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YOU KNOW, HERE'S HOW YOU WOULD HOW YOU WOULD DO THAT.IT ALLOWS IT, OF COURSE, THE OTHER SET WHERE WHERE THE SORT OF PERCEIVED CONFLICT IS, IS THE SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS, WHICH SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU REALLY SHOULDN'T DO IT, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S REALLY FOR PLATTING OF NEW SUBDIVISIONS.
SO IT'S INTENT IS SORT OF DIFFERENT IN THE TWO CODES.
THAT'S, WHAT WE WERE GETTING AT SORT OF ORIGINALLY IN THE OLD PART OF TOWN HERE.
YOU KNOW, IT HAS SOME OF THAT ALLOWANCE IN IT.
THAT IS WHERE WE STARTED THE DISAGREEMENT, BUT I THINK IT'S KIND OF BUILT INTO SOMETHING DIFFERENT BECAUSE, YEAH, WE'VE HAD THE FIRE MARSHAL COME IN AND FIRE MARSHAL RAISED A YELLOW FLAG.
I MEAN, IT'S DOABLE, BUT IT MAKES HIS JOB HARDER.
THE POLICE CHIEF DIDN'T COME IN, BUT WE GOT HIS COMMENTS.
AND THE WAY I INTERPRET THESE COMMENTS, IT'S A RED FLAG.
YOURS, I WOULD INTERPRET MAYBE A LITTLE BIT YELLOW.
PROBABLY MORE YELLOW. YEAH. AND SO WE'RE HEARING ALL THESE THINGS AND WE'RE SAYING, WHY IS THIS A GOOD IDEA? WELL, I RECOGNIZE THE HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE OF IT.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT DEFINITELY NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED.
I JUST DON'T PUT IT ON THE SAME LEVEL AS THE ONES THAT INVOLVE SAFETY.
BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT MY THOUGHT OR INTENT BIT TO TRY AND SHUT IT DOWN, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO REGULATE IT TO THE POINT WHERE, YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T GET OUT OF CONTROL WITH APPLICATIONS.
I MEAN, WE HAD ONE CASE COME IN. THERE WERE TWO VACANT LOTS.
AND THE GUY, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, NO HOUSES. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE HAD EVER BEEN HOUSES THERE, BUT HE JUST WANTED TO TURN THEM INTO FOUR. AND HE GOT TWO ON THE ALLEY.
AND I'M SAYING THAT'S THAT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA.
THAT'S THAT'S NOT EVEN GOOD FOR THE I MEAN, FOR THE IMAGE OF THE CITY.
AND, YOU KNOW, YOUR FRIENDS COME TO VISIT YOU.
AND HOW DO YOU GET TO MY HOUSE? WELL, YOU GO PAST THE MAIN STREET AND GO DOWN THE ALLEY, AND BUT YOU CAN'T PARK HERE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE A RESTRICTION ON PARKING.
WE'RE TRYING TO GET THAT PUT IN. BUT IF IT WAS JUST ONE, WELL, MY CAR IS GOING TO BE THE ONE.
SO WHERE MY FRIEND'S GOING TO GO, THEY'RE GOING TO PARK ON THE STREET AND THEY'RE GOING TO WALK DOWN THE ALLEY. AND IT'S JUST I KEEP SEEING ALL THESE, THESE, YOU KNOW, WARNING FLAGS AND, AND I HAVE TO ASSUME AND THAT AS WE CONTINUE TO APPROVE THESE, THE NUMBER IS GOING TO GROW TO, YOU KNOW, 200.
I CAN BUILD TWO HOUSES AND DOUBLE MY MONEY AND THEN IT GOES CRAZY.
AND THEN WE TRY TO PUT THE BRAKES ON, BUT THE DAMAGE HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S BEEN A FIRE THAT YOU REALLY COULDN'T EFFECTIVELY FIGHT, OR THERE'S BEEN AN OFFICER THAT'S BEEN INJURED AND ALL THE ISSUES THAT YOU HAD TO DEAL WITH. SO THAT'S. BUT I'M GLAD YOU SAID YOU'RE A YELLOW FLAG.
YEAH, YEAH. IS THERE ARE THERE ANY PERMITS? ANYBODY APPLYING FOR PERMITS NOW FOR ALLEY LOTS.
IS THERE ANYTHING ON THE BOARD AWARE OF ANY THAT ARE IN THE PIPELINE? I MEAN, IT'S BEEN A WHILE. YEAH, IT'S BEEN WE SAW ONE ON THE VERY FAR EAST END IN THE SAN JACINTO NEIGHBORHOOD MAYBE THREE MONTHS AGO.
WE HAVEN'T SEEN ONE SINCE THEN. WE MAYBE GET 1 OR 2 A YEAR.
BUT WE DO GET INFILL LOTS WHERE PEOPLE ARE BUILDING A SECOND UNIT ON THEIR LOT, LIKE THEY'RE ALLOWED TO DO RIGHT NOW, TODAY. THEY COULD GO DO THAT WHETHER OR NOT THEY, YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY UTILIZE THE ACCESS OR THE ALLEY, YOU KNOW, IS A DIFFERENT STORY. BUT I KNOW THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE HERE TO DISCUSS IS THAT THAT USE OF THE ALLEY VERSUS A PLACEMENT OF A STRUCTURE.
YEAH. YEAH. AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF DEPARTMENTS HAVE BEEN AROUND FOREVER.
YEAH. AND AND MORE THAN LIKELY PEOPLE WILL WANT TO DO GARAGE APARTMENTS IN THE FUTURE.
SO HOW WOULD WE HOW WOULD WE REGULATE THAT? SO LIKE SOMEBODY BUILDS AN ADU IN THE BACK OF THEIR HOUSE AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE GOT A GATE IN THE BACK ON THE ALLEY THAT YOU COULD WALK IN, BUT THEY'VE ALSO GOT A GATE ON THE FRONT THAT YOU COULD WALK IN THERE, TOO. DO WE MAKE THEM HAVE A PATHWAY, OR IS IT JUST THAT NOW THEY COULDN'T HAVE TWO LOTS, ONE ON THE ALLEY THEY HAVE TO HAVE.
IT'S THE SUBDIVISION REALLY THAT KICKS IN THESE CONCERNS.
THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. THE ACCESS CONCERNS, THE USE OF THE ALLEY CONCERNS.
I MEAN, HAVING A SECOND UNIT AGAIN IS ALLOWED BY RIGHT AND TRADITIONALLY THAT'S BEEN, YOU KNOW, YOU FIND YOUR PLACE TO PARK ON THE MAIN STREET, YOU ACCESS THROUGH, YOU KNOW, YOUR, YOUR LOT,
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YOU KNOW, INSIDE OF YOUR LOT. IT COULD BE A WHOEVER'S IN THE ADU IS CONSIDERED PART OF THAT, YOU KNOW PRIMARY. BUT YEAH. SO THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE IS IT REALLY ALLOWS THAT COMES DOWN TO THE [INAUDIBLE].YEAH. GOTCHA. AND YOU KNOW, AND SO IF I GUESS THE QUESTION IS IF, IF THEY'RE DOING THINGS DIFFERENTLY, I.E. PARKING IN THE ALLEY AND THINGS LIKE THAT THAT AREN'T ALLOWED. YEAH. WE'VE GOT PROBLEMS IF THEY'RE PARKING, YOU KNOW, IN THE LOT SOMEWHERE, MAYBE NOT AS MANY, BUT STILL THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE HERE TO ADDRESS.
AND SO, I MEAN, IN THEORY, YOU KNOW, LIKE THE ISSUE OF PEOPLE PARKING ON THE, ON THE ALLEY, RIGHT. SO YOU ARE, Y'ALL ARE WE TALKING ABOUT NOT LETTING PEOPLE PARK SUCH THAT THEY'RE TAKING UP PART OF THE ALLEY? SO, I MEAN, IF YOU'VE GOT YOUR FENCE TEN FEET IN, YOU CAN STILL PARK YOUR CAR THERE BECAUSE THAT'S YOUR PROPERTY.
YOU'RE NOT TAKING OVER PART OF THE ALLEY. RIGHT.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. OKAY, I JUST WANTED TO BE CLEAR.
AND THAT MAYBE IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE HAPPENING A LITTLE BIT MORE OFTEN WITH THE CASE.
I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH YOU SEE OF CARS IN THE BACK END.
I KNOW ONE OFF 24TH STREET. I KNOW THERE'S ONE ALLEY.
AND IT'S YOU COULDN'T GET BY, RIGHT? YEAH. I LOOKED AT THE HOUSE THERE.
YEAH. I THINK THE KEY THERE, THE KEY THERE IS THAT YOU LOOK DOWN THAT ENFORCEMENT ISSUE.
THE REAL KEY IS, YOU KNOW, TYPICALLY OUR ENFORCEMENT IS COMPLAINT BASED.
SO IF THERE'S A PROBLEM PROPERTY AND PEOPLE ARE DOING THINGS THEY SHOULDN'T BE DOING, LIKE PARKING IN AN ALLEY THAT, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY PEOPLE ARE CALLING THAT IN IF, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE PARKING ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY, YOU KNOW, AND PEOPLE AREN'T CALLING IT IN, THAT'S SORT OF AN INDICATION IS IT IS WORKING OKAY OR GOOD ENOUGH OR NOT.
BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'RE GETTING A WHOLE LOT OF COMPLAINTS ABOUT ALLEY LOTS.
CATHERINE, HAVE YOU HEARD OF MANY FROM A PARKING PERSPECTIVE? NO, I JUST YEAH. I'M NOT GOING TO TURN MY NEIGHBORS IN BECAUSE I LIKE MY NEIGHBORS, BUT THEY SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.
OH, YEAH. YEAH. THAT'S I'M NOT GOING TO. SO THEY'RE ALL NEIGHBORS.
BUT PEOPLE PARK ALONG THE EDGES OF IT, YOU KNOW.
SO LIKE I SAID, I CAN'T BEAR I HAVE TO JUST A GOLF CART EVEN GETTING IT OUT.
SO YOU KNOW, AS WE TALK, NOT ALL NOT ALL ALLEYS ARE CREATED EQUALLY.
SOME OF THEM ARE ARE MORE ELIGIBLE FOR HAVING ALLEY ACCESS ONLY PROPERTIES WHERE SOME OF THEM ARE, YOU KNOW, BUILT TO LOT LINE. AND THAT'S JUST MY THOUGHTS.
I'M SORRY I WAS LATE. THAT'S A GOOD CONTENTION. IT'S LIKE, OKAY, SHOULD WE DESIGNATE ALLEY ACCESS LOTS SO THAT WHAT ARE THE STANDARDS FOR THE ALLEY FOR IT TO BE AN ALLEY ACCESS ONLY LOT.
I MEAN, ARE THERE CERTAIN. AND I THINK YOU CAME UP WITH A GOOD LIST OF THEM.
YEAH, BUT I THINK YOU HAVE TO TAKE THEM ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
YEAH. COME IN HERE AND MAKE THEIR ARGUMENT, THEIR PRESENTATION, AND GIVE US THE INFORMATION THAT WE NEED TO SEE IF THERE ARE OBSTRUCTIONS THAT MAKE IT MORE INACCESSIBLE THAN OTHERS. AND IF THEY'RE IN THAT SITUATION, AND THEY MAY HAVE TO IF THEY REALLY WANT TO SUBDIVIDE THAT LOT AND BUILD THAT SECOND HOUSE, THEY MAY HAVE TO MOVE SOME UTILITY POLES OR SOMETHING OF THAT SORT.
THAT'S JUST PART OF THE DEAL. I MEAN, ANY ANY BUILDER FACES THAT IN A IN A TYPICAL RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION, YOU MAY HAVE A UTILITY BOX, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU WANT TO PUT YOUR DRIVEWAY.
YEAH. YOU GOT TO RELOCATE IT. YEAH. I WILL SAY, YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE TO WHATEVER SOLUTION WE DECIDE ON, YOU KNOW, RECOMMEND OR HOWEVER THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, I WOULD LOVE TO NOT HAVE MORE CASES THAT WE HAVE TO REVIEW.
AND THEN TWO, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, AS MUCH AS I LOVE SPENDING TIME WITH Y'ALL, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST ONE MORE THING ON OUR AGENDA EACH, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY, I MEAN, IF IT GOES HOW, YOU KNOW, WE'RE THINKING MAYBE, YOU KNOW, COULD BE PRETTY FREQUENTLY GOING FORWARD.
WHO KNOWS. BUT BUT NOT HAVE MORE CASES STANDARDS THAT THEY CAN.
YEAH I THINK THEY HAVE STANDARDS. THEY CAN APPROVE THEM AND THEY DON'T COME TO US. YEAH.
I'M A BIG PROPONENT OF STAFF HAVING SOME OF THOSE, YOU KNOW, TOOLS SUPPORT THE TOOLBOX.
[00:25:04]
ALL THESE FOUR CRITERIA IN ORDER TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL.AND NOT FRONTING ON A STREET KICKS YOU RIGHT OUT.
OH THAT'S INTERESTING. THOSE WILL ALWAYS COME.
THEY WILL ALWAYS COME TO OK. RUSTY. WE CHANGED THE TIME ON YOU.
YOU DID? WE USUALLY HAVE THESE AT 2:30, BUT YEAH, I DIDN'T.
STARTED AT TWO TODAY. I APOLOGIZE TO. OH, SHOOT.
OKAY, WELL, I'LL FIGURE IT OUT. IT'S ALL GOOD.
THEY ELECTED A NEW CHAIRMAN. NO. HE RESIGNED.
HE RESIGNED. HEY. WHAT ARE WE DOING? SUIT YOURSELF.
WE'VE BEEN VISITING WITH ROB WINIECKE, WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF INFRASTRUCTURE AND ENGINEERING, WHO'S KIND ENOUGH TO BE HERE WITH US TODAY. AND WE'VE JUST BEEN HAVING A CONVERSATION ABOUT EVERY, YOU KNOW, TOPICS THAT WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING FOR A WHILE ABOUT WHAT'S THIS ABOUT ABOUT THE ALLEY STUFF. YEP YEP YEP YEP.
AND SO ROB SAYS, I KNOW I WANTED TO ASK THAT SAME QUESTION.
RUSTY AND I WANTED TO ASK THAT SAME QUESTION.
SO COULD YOU TELL US A LITTLE. I'M SORRY. NO.
YOU'RE FINE. I'M NOT A GREEN LIGHT BY ANY MEANS.
I'M NOT WHOLLY IN FAVOR OF IT. WE'VE GOT. GIVE ME A QUICK SYNOPSIS AGAIN THAT YOU GUYS MISSED INITIALLY IS, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT A LOT OF UTILITIES IN THE ALLEYS. A LOT OF IT IS, YOU KNOW, UNDERGROUND STUFF, CITY WATER AND SEWER. AS WE GO AHEAD AND HAVE MORE USE IN THOSE AREAS AND MORE BUILDING CLOSER TO THE EDGE.
NOW, THOSE FEATURES, WATER METERS OR SEWER CLEANUPS HAVE TO BE FURTHER OUT IN THE ALLEY.
MORE VEHICLES GOING THROUGH THERE. NOW. WE'VE GOT MORE POTENTIAL FOR THOSE TO BE DAMAGED.
WHETHER THAT'S MORE COST ON THE CITY OR PUSH BACK TO THE PROPERTY OWNER.
THERE'S ONE ISSUE. BUT ALSO WITH THE SEWER CLEANUPS BEING BROKEN, THAT ALLOWS STORMWATER RUNOFF TO GET IN THERE, TAKE AWAY CAPACITY FROM OUR SEWERS, LEAD TO MORE OVERFLOWS, POSSIBLE ISSUES THAT OUR TREATMENT PLANTS FOR THE TREATMENT PROCESS WITH THE BACTERIA THAT WE USE TO CLEAN THE WATER STRUGGLING A BIT. SO THOSE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE DEAL WITH CONCERNS ABOUT DRAINAGE.
YOU KNOW, DRAINAGE TYPICALLY GOES FROM THE BACK OF THE LOT TO THE FRONT, OUT TO THE STREET.
WHEN YOU HAVE THESE TWO LOTS SEPARATED NOW TRYING TO CREATE AN EASEMENT ACROSS THE FRONT LOT LAWN.
THAT COULD BE AN ISSUE, RIGHT? AND THEN THAT BACKS UP ON THE NEIGHBOR.
BUT THOSE HAPPEN. YOU'VE GOT THE OVERHEAD UTILITIES.
YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T JUST HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE LINE ITSELF.
THERE'S TYPICALLY A CONE OR NOT A CONE LIKE A CYLINDER AROUND IT OF WHAT THEY WANT FOR AN EASEMENT TO KEEP THAT AREA CLEAN, WHETHER IT'S TREES OR OTHER STRUCTURES FOR SAFETY PURPOSES.
AND YOU'VE SEEN IT BEFORE. YOU DRIVE DOWN ANY MAJOR STREET.
THE OAK TREES HAVE BEEN HANDLED BECAUSE THERE'S A POWER LINE THAT RUNS RIGHT THROUGH IT.
SO THOSE ARE CONCERNS TOO, FROM AN ESTHETIC STANDPOINT.
BUT IT'S ALSO A SAFETY ISSUE THAT, YOU KNOW, IF SOMETHING ARCS ONTO A BUILDING, YOU KNOW? STARTING A FIRE COULD HAPPEN. AND THEN THE OTHER REAL THING IS EGRESS FROM THE FRONT OF THE LOT.
ADDRESSING BECOMES A LITTLE BIT OF AN ISSUE. IS IT A REAR? IS IT A QUARTER? IS IT WHATEVER IT IS? BUT, YOU KNOW SOME OF THE ISSUES YOU RUN INTO IS YOU'VE GOT TWO LOTS.
ONE'S BACK BEHIND IT. HOW DO THEY HAVE ACCESS TO THAT LOT? IS IT ONLY OFF THE ALLEY OR IS IT OFF THE FRONT? AND THEN FOR POSTAL SERVICE, TYPICALLY THEY'RE LOOKING AT EVERYTHING OFF THE MAIN STREET.
BUT THAT COULD BE OVERGROWN. IT COULD LOOK LIKE SOMEBODY'S ENTRANCE TO THEIR THEIR BACKYARD.
IT COULD BE A GARDEN LOOK. SO THERE COULD BE SOME MAJOR ISSUES WITH THAT.
SO THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF THAT MIXED TOGETHER.
BUT THOSE ARE SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT I SEE WITH DOING TOO MUCH TRAFFIC.
SO YOU KNOW WE HAVE STREETS THAT ARE SURFACED MADE FOR VEHICLES, WHEREAS THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE ALLEYS ARE NOT. THEY'RE MADE FOR VEHICLES. JUST NOT.
THEY'RE NOT AN ABUNDANCE OF THEM. CORRECT. AND SURFACING YOU CAN GO AHEAD.
WE HAVE A PROGRAM IN THE CITY TO HAVE YOUR ALLEY PAVED.
THAT BASICALLY WHAT HAPPENS IS YOU APPLY TO THE STREETS DEPARTMENT TO HAVE YOUR ALLEY PAVED.
THEY'LL GIVE YOU AN ESTIMATE, AND THEN YOU CAN PAY THE ENTIRE THING YOURSELF. OR YOU CAN GET WITH YOUR NEIGHBORS AND CHIP IN THE COST INCREMENTALLY, AND YOU CAN HAVE YOUR ALLEY PAID. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN DO. BASICALLY, WE CHARGE YOU FOR MATERIALS.
WE PROVIDE THE LABOR TO DO IT. SO THAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENED.
YEAH. THAT'S AN INTERESTING. YEAH. THERE'S A NUMBER OF ALLEYS ACROSS THE ISLAND THAT YOU'LL FIND IT'LL BE WEIRD BECAUSE IT'S LIKE YOU GO DOWN ONE THAT'S LIMESTONE AND ANOTHER LIMESTONE. ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU ROLL ACROSS A SECTION AND THEN. YEAH. AND YOU'RE LIKE, WHAT HAPPENED HERE? THAT'S WHAT IT IS.
YOU CALL ANY NUMBERS ON WHAT IT COSTS TO PAVE?
[00:30:03]
SO WHEN WE'RE DOING A MILL AND OVERLAY ON A STREET, IT'S TYPICALLY ABOUT 25,000 BLOCK.SO IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO BE LESS THAN THAT, OBVIOUSLY.
WELL, NO, IT IS BECAUSE YOU'RE ONLY TALKING TEN TO 12FT OF ASPHALT AT THAT POINT.
SO YOU'VE GOT AT LEAST HALF THERE, RIGHT, EXACTLY.
SO AND WE'RE ONLY CHARGING FOR MATERIALS, NOT LABOR.
MY 25,000 GOT LABOR INTO IT. SO. OKAY. SO LET'S SAY WE HAVE A REPAIR ISSUE IN A HOUSE.
AND WE COULD HAVE THAT TODAY. SURE. OKAY. AND I'M SURE YOU DO.
OR IS IT TRADITIONALLY MORE SEWER IN THE FRONT, WATER, SEWER IN THE BACK, WATER IN THE FRONT.
SO THERE ARE AREAS WHERE WE HAVE TO HAVE ALLEY, BUT OTHER PLACES, TYPICALLY IT'S THE SEWER IN THE ALLEY AND THEN THE WATER WOULD BE OUT ON THE MAIN STREET. SO WE HAVE A REPAIR IN AN ALLEY.
LET'S JUST SAY WE HAD A MAIN BREAK JUST TO PICK SOMETHING.
IF WE HAD THAT IN A TRAVEL STREET, I WOULD ASSUME THAT THERE'S PROBABLY MORE ROOM FOR TRAFFIC AND FOR THE CREWS TO WORK BECAUSE THERE'S TWICE THE RIGHT OF WAY ROUGHLY. YEAH. SO WE COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE WELL, I GUESS THOSE ALLEYS COULD BE ACCESSED FROM BOTH ENDS.
SO I GUESS THAT WOULD PROBABLY FIX THAT PROBLEM.
I WAS JUST THINKING IN TERMS OF, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS A PROBLEM, YOU WOULD STILL HAVE RESTRICTIONS ON THAT BECAUSE YOU HAVE PROBABLY ONE WAY, ONE WAY OUT FOR THE CREWS TO DO THE WORK. YOU KNOW, GET A DUMP TRUCK IN THERE AND THEN A MINI EXCAVATOR OR WHATEVER EQUIPMENT WE'RE USING THAT TAKES UP QUITE A BIT OF ROOM, AND WE'D PROBABLY HAVE TO USE A MINI IN SOME AREAS BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE CLEARANCES TO, AND THEY COULD COME FROM THE OTHER END UNLESS THEY HAPPEN TO BE RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR LOT. YEAH, SOMETHING COULD HAPPEN.
IT HAPPENS NO MATTER WHAT, UNFORTUNATELY. SO YEAH, I GUESS THE ISSUE THERE IS, IS IF IT STARTS TO SETTLE IN THE ALLEY BECAUSE IT'S NOT A MAJOR THOROUGHFARE, IT'S LESS OF AN ISSUE OTHER THAN THE PEOPLE THAT ARE DIRECTLY OFF OF IT THAT ARE IMPACTED.
RIGHT. I MEAN, WHEN YOU GET A DEPRESSION OUT OF THE STREET, IT AFFECTS NOT JUST THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE RIGHT THERE, BUT IT'S EVERYBODY GOING BY IT. AND WITH HAVING ACCESS OFF AN ALLEY, YOU SHOULD PROBABLY REALLY HAVE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SERVICED OFF THAT ALLEY REALLY ACCESSING THAT SPACE AND USING IT. SO IT AFFECTS A DIFFERENT AMOUNT OF PEOPLE, YOU KNOW.
AND PROBABLY AS BIG AS [INAUDIBLE] AND ALL THAT IS, IS PARKING.
BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE SOMEBODY PARKS ON ONE, IF THEY'RE NOT PARKING ON THEIR PROPERTY AND THEY'RE PARKING IN THE ALLEY THAT'S KIND OF A PROBLEM. SURE. YEAH. IT RESTRICTS HOW MUCH ROOM YOU HAVE TO MANEUVER.
I THINK YOU ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THAT. YEAH. I MENTIONED A LITTLE BIT OF THAT.
SHE HAS PERSONAL ISSUES. SO, YEAH, I'M NOT TURNING MY NEIGHBORS IN.
AND IN SOME INSTANCES WHERE WE KNOW THEY'RE IN A STREET, OR I KNOW THAT WE WOULD USE STABILIZED SAND OR SOME STABILIZED BASE WHERE THE THE EXCAVATION OR WHERE THE LINES ARE SO THAT THE TRAFFIC GOES OVER IT.
IT'S NOT GOING TO IT BRIDGES IT BETTER. RIGHT.
IS THAT SOMETHING THAT'S DONE? I MEAN, IT'S SAND, SO IT PACKS PRETTY TIGHT.
BUT IF IF YOU WERE OUTSIDE OF THAT PRISON, SAY, IF YOU USE THE CURB AS A DEMARCATION POINT FROM A ROADWAY, RIGHT. IF IT'S BEHIND THE CURVE TOWARDS THE SIDEWALK, JUST GOING WITH NATIVE MATERIAL IS FINE.
YOU REALIZE HE HAS GONE TO SETTLE A LITTLE BIT, BUT IF YOU CAN PACK THAT TOO MUCH, THEN THAT AFFECTS YOUR DRAINAGE POTENTIAL OF THAT MATERIAL. SO A LOT OF TIMES WHEN IT'S BACK BEHIND THE CURB, YOU GO WITH A LESSER COMPACTION ON IT TO ALLOW THAT WATER TO ACTUALLY INFILTRATE THE GROUND. AND MY POINT ALL THIS IS IF WE WERE TO HAVE IF WE HAVE MORE AND MORE TRAFFIC IN THE ALLEYS, WE COULD POTENTIALLY SEE MORE AND MORE REPAIRS TO OUR WATER AND SEWER LINES.
WELL, THE WATER AND SEWER LINES FOR SURE, DEPENDING ON THE DEPTH. I MEAN, TYPICALLY THEY'RE THREE FOOT, BUT WE HAVE AREAS WHERE THEY'RE MUCH SHALLOWER THAN THAT BECAUSE YOU'RE AT THE VERY END OF A LINE, RIGHT? SO IT JUST DEPENDS ON WHERE EXACTLY YOU'RE AT IN THE SYSTEM.
BUT YEAH. AND IF IT'S OLD CLAY PIPE THEN YOU'RE DEFINITELY GOING TO HAVE ISSUES WITH THAT ON SEWER.
BUT OUR GARBAGE TRUCKS DON'T TRAVEL IN THE ALLEYS IN THOSE AREAS DO THEY.
IN THE GRID. YEAH THEY DO. AND THEY PICK THEM UP AND PUT MY TRASH IN MY ALLEY.
SO THAT WOULD KIND OF BE A MOOT POINT IF GARBAGE TRUCK CAN DRIVE THROUGH THERE.
[00:35:04]
BUT, I MEAN, YOUR GARBAGE TRUCKS GOING THROUGH THERE ONCE A WEEK VERSUS, YOU KNOW, HAVING SOMEBODY GO THROUGH THERE FIVE TIMES A DAY, PLUS CONCRETE TRUCKS WHEN YOU BUILD IN THE HOUSE AND, YOU KNOW, LUMBER DELIVERIES AND ALL THAT, EVERYTHING ELSE. YEAH. THAT'S TRUE. SO IT WOULD TAKE A TOLL FOR SURE.YEAH. OKAY. THAT'S ALL I GOT. SORRY I'M LATE.
OH. SO SHOULD WE LOOK AT I KEEP THINKING, IS THERE SOME WAY WE CAN JUST HAVE A DESIGNATION FOR ALLEYWAYS THAT ARE APPROVED FOR RESIDENTIAL ACCESS? YOU'D HAVE TO GO, SIR. DO A SURVEY, NOT A ACTUAL LAND SURVEY, BUT, YOU KNOW, CHECK OUT EVERY ALLEYWAY TO DO THAT.
AND THIS SOUNDS VERY COMPLICATED TO PROCESS. I MEAN, JUST BY DEFINITION, NOT BY ACTUAL EXAMINATION, BUT BY DEFINITION, THIS IS AN ALLEYWAY THAT IS ACCEPTABLE FOR RESIDENTIAL.
BUT THE QUESTION IT WOULD BE YOU GOT A LOT OF DETERMINERS THAT WOULD BE THERE.
YOU GOT TURNING RADIUS. YOU HAVE HOW MUCH YOU KNOW HOW MUCH CLEARANCE DO THEY HAVE FROM THE HOUSE? I MEAN, THERE'S JUST LIKE A LOT. AND IN ORDER FOR US, TO US WHO ARE NOT ALL ENGINEERING OR TECHNICALLY SAVVY, MAYBE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GIVE THE DEFINITIVE ANSWER TO WHAT WOULD BE THE PARAMETERS FOR A, YOU KNOW, A LOT THAT COULD BE BUILT THAT'S ON THE ALLEY, RIGHT? SO TO ME, THAT SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING THAT WOULD COME NOT LEFT OR RIGHT, BUT RIGHT TO LEFT.
WE WOULD GET IT FROM ENGINEERING TO SAY, HEY, THIS IS WHAT WE THINK THAT WOULD BE ADEQUATE OR WOULD BE THE BASE REQUIREMENT TO HAVE A LOT ON AN ALLEY. I THINK THEY DO THE WORK, AND THEN WE JUST LOOK AT IT AND SAY, OKAY, BECAUSE FOR US, I DON'T THINK THAT WE CAN, I DON'T KNOW, I SHOULDN'T SPEAK FOR EVERYBODY, BUT FOR MYSELF PERSONALLY, I KNOW THAT I'M NOT EQUIPPED TO BE ABLE TO ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS NECESSARY TO SAY IT'S WHETHER THAT'S A LOT THAT COULD BE AN ALLEY LOT OR NOT.
I 100% AGREE. CATHERINE, QUESTION. SO I KNOW THAT AND I JUST SEEN THIS WHERE SURPRISINGLY, WE DO HAVE SOME HOMES THAT ARE FRONTED ON THE ALLEY NOW.
ARE THOSE TRADITIONALLY IN THE HISTORICAL DISTRICT OR IS IT ALL OVER THE BOARD? HAVE YOU ALL ALREADY BEHIND YOU? RIGHT THERE? OH, SO ACTUALLY THE MAJORITY ARE BETWEEN 25TH AND YOU KNOW WHAT, 45TH.
SO 70 ARE VACANT LOTS. THE OTHER HUNDRED HAVE SOMETHING ON THEM.
SO WHAT YOU SEE IN THE RED ARE JUST THE LOTS THAT ARE ALLEY ACCESS ONLY.
SO THEY MAY HAVE ADUS, LIKE AN ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT, AN ACCESSORY TO THE MAIN STRUCTURE.
THEN WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THIS AREA WHERE IT'S RED.
THEY GO IN TO MAKE THE LOTS CHEAPER AND THEY SPLIT THE LOTS FRONT TO BACK.
THERE'S AN ALLEY LOT I JUST AND WE'VE SEEN THEM A COUPLE OF TIMES RIGHT.
AND THAT WAS THEIR WAY OF MAKING THEM ECONOMICAL, I THINK RIGHT.
YEAH. WE SEE A HANDFUL HERE. YEAH. IT'S, I THINK THE LAST ONE WE HAD IS ABOUT THREE MONTHS AGO, BUT THEN WE HAD ONE PROBABLY THREE MONTHS BEFORE THAT, WHICH WAS THE FOUR LOTS.
YEAH. THEY KIND OF KICKED OFF THIS CONVERSATION. I THINK THAT'S CORRECT.
THE ONE THAT WE HAD PROBABLY NOT JUST THE LAST ONE.
SO NOT TO NAME NAMES, BUT THE LAST ONE WAS THE ONE THAT BRAX BROUGHT US.
BUT THEN THERE WAS ONE THAT WAS PROBABLY SEVERAL MONTHS BEFORE THAT.
AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY THE FIRST ONE THAT REALLY THREW THE FLAG UP.
AND WE SAID, WAIT A MINUTE. HOWEVER, IN THAT PARTICULAR DEAL, IT WAS A PLANNING DEAL.
SO. YOU KNOW, THAT ONE BECAME EVEN MORE COMPLICATED.
BUT THE LDRS PERMITTED IT. RIGHT. IT WAS FROM A PLANNING STANDPOINT.
HE WAS GOOD. IS THAT RIGHT TIM? YEAH. THAT'S CORRECT.
REMEMBER THAT ONE? AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE JOHN AND I BEING NEW AND WE WENT TO THE LDRS.
I'M NOT TRYING TO SPEAK FOR YOU. I'LL SPEAK FOR MYSELF. AND I WENT TO SECTION 63.03.
AND THEN I WAS THEN I WAS CORRECTED THAT THAT'S NOT WHAT THAT MEANS.
[00:40:01]
IT MEANS THE HOME ENTRANCE. SO YEAH, I THOUGHT MAYBE WE COULD ADD MAIN PROPERTY ENTRANCE ON THE ALLEY INSTEAD OF JUST THE DWELLING ENTRANCE.BUT I'D HATE TO RULE IT OUT FOR EVERYBODY. BACK TO I LIKE WHAT YOU SAID.
YOU KNOW, LET OUR EXPERTS TELL US WHAT IS THE CRITERIA FOR IT TO BE SAFE.
AND THEN IT COMES TO US AFTER YOU GUYS HAVE ALREADY SAID THIS ONE MEETS THESE SPECIFICATIONS.
WELL, OUR EXPERT HAS TO MOVE ON TO HIS NEXT MEETING.
SO WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO DO THAT FOR US? I'VE ALREADY REVIEWED ALL OF OUR PLANS RIGHT HERE.
AND JUST SO YOU GUYS KNOW, I CAN TELL YOU I'VE SEEN MANY, MANY CASES COME BEFORE US AND I DIDN'T ASK A SINGLE QUESTION BECAUSE I KNEW HE WAS GOING TO BE LOOKING AT IT. SO YOU GUYS DO A GOOD JOB.
I DON'T LIKE IT WHEN MY STUFF IS OVER THERE, BUT IT DOES GIVE ME SOME CONFIDENCE SEEING ON PLANNING COMMISSION TO KNOW THAT, HEY, THOSE GUYS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO CHECK THE BOXES TO GET THEIR STUFF DONE.
SO IF WE HAVE HIS NOT OBJECTIONS OR WHATEVER, HIS COMMENTS ON THE AGENDA ITEM THAT SAY HE RAISES ALL KINDS OF FLAGS ON IT, THEN WHAT? WELL, I THINK THAT'S. I MEAN, WE APPROVE THEM ANYWAY.
SO THAT'S I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE ARE WITH THIS IS, YOU KNOW, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO MAKE A DECISION TO POSSIBLY SAY, HEY, AND I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S ACTUALLY A PLANNING COMMISSION DECISION.
BUT WHEREAS MY CONCERN IS A CONCERN THAT WE'VE ALL EXPRESSED IS THAT IF ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE'S FIVE TIMES AS MANY RED DOTS AS THERE ARE RIGHT NOW, THAT'S CONCEIVABLE.
AND IT MEANS THERE'S FIVE TIMES AS MUCH TRAFFIC, FIVE TIMES AS MUCH WATER USED, FIVE TIMES AS MUCH SEWER USE, FIVE TIMES AS MUCH EVERYTHING.
AND I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE'RE AT. I, I PERSONALLY DON'T LIKE THESE, ESPECIALLY WHERE THE RED DOTS ARE IN THE CENTER OF OUR CORE CENTER OF OUR CITY. IT'S GOING TO DESTROY THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS, IF I CAN, IF I CAN ADD A COUNTERPOINT, THOUGH. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT PUBLIC SERVICES LIKE THESE ARE, YOU KNOW, LOTS THAT ALREADY HAVE ACCESS TO SEWER AND WATER AND WHATNOT.
YEAH. SO NOW THERE'S FIVE TIMES MORE. THE PIPE DIDN'T GET ANY BIGGER.
YEAH. WELL RUSTY HERE'S HERE'S WHERE I'M COMING FROM TO PREVENT IT FROM BECOMING A LAND RUSH.
YOU KNOW, WHERE ALL OF A SUDDEN WE CAN DOUBLE THE DENSITY IN A NEIGHBORHOOD.
YOU KNOW, THE BUILDERS GO CRAZY AND JUMP ON IT.
WE NEED TO ESTABLISH TOUGHER STANDARDS. THAT KIND OF RESTRICTS IT.
AND MAYBE THERE'S ENCROACHMENTS. MAYBE IT'S UTILITY POLES.
MAYBE IT NEEDS TO BE PAVED, YOU KNOW, FOR 25,000.
MAYBE HE CAN AFFORD THAT AND HIS BUILD JOB MAYBE HE CAN'T.
BUT WE STACK ALL THOSE THINGS IN THERE. I'M NOT SAYING ROADBLOCKS TO STOP THEM BECAUSE I THINK THE HISTORICAL SIDE IS IMPORTANT AND WE SHOULD ALLOW TO SOME DEGREE THOSE. BUT WE GOT TO THROTTLE IT DOWN WHERE IT DOESN'T GET OUT OF HAND, BECAUSE IF IT BECOMES 500 OR 700, YOU KNOW, THEN SOMEBODY'S GOING TO REGRET ONE DAY A FIRE OR A POLICE EMERGENCY OR AN AMBULANCE THAT COULDN'T GET THROUGH OR SOME OTHER SITUATION. AND THAT'S THE RESPONSIBILITY.
I THINK THAT WE DO HAVE TO STRUCTURE THOSE KIND OF CONDITIONS OR RESTRICTIONS.
SO IT'S JUST NOT A OPEN PASS TO SUBDIVIDE LOTS.
IT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA. IT'S NOT SAFE. YEAH. AND IT'S GOING TO COST MONEY.
AND I MEAN, IT'S KIND OF A HIDDEN COST, BUT IT'S THERE.
AND SO I THINK WE'VE GOT TO ADDRESS IT AND THAT THE INFRASTRUCTURE CAN'T HANDLE IT.
THE EXTRA LOAD. IN THE AREAS AT SOME POINT THAT'S THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.
SO YOU'RE GOING TO SAY CASE BY CASE. ROB. THANKS, ROB.
I APPRECIATE YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. SO WHAT ARE THE WHAT ARE OUR NEXT ACTIONS?
[00:45:04]
TRUSTEE. WHAT DO YOU THINK WE'VE GOT A COUPLE OF THESE ARE ALL SLIDES WE LOOKED AT LAST TIME.OKAY. SO THESE WERE THE CONCERNS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT.
SO STAFF HAS SOME IDEAS ABOUT POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS FOR THOSE.
I THINK WE WENT OVER THESE A LITTLE BIT AT THE LAST MEETING.
SO WE COULD, YOU KNOW, START TO DEVELOP SOME STANDARDS THAT ADDRESS THE CONCERNS THAT ARE COMING FROM Y'ALL AND ARE COMING FROM THE CITY EMPLOYEES. AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE SOME REALLY GOOD STUFF THAT COMMISSIONER LIGHTFOOT HAS PUT TOGETHER.
SO STAFF CAN DO IS MELD THESE TWO INTO A PROPOSAL.
SAY THAT AGAIN, WE CAN BUILD THESE TO OKAY THE STUFF THAT STAFF HAS COME UP WITH, THE STUFF THAT COMMISSIONER LIGHTFOOT HAS COME UP WITH MELDED INTO A SET OF STANDARDS THAT YOU ALL CAN START TO LOOK AT AND SEE HOW YOU THINK ABOUT THEM.
AND I'VE GOT ONE THOUGHT THAT I'D LIKE TO ADD TO THAT LIST.
AND THAT IS I DON'T KNOW IF THIS COULD BE DONE OR NOT, CATHERINE, BUT A RESTRICTION AGAINST SHORT TERM RENTALS ON PROPERTIES BECAUSE OF THE HIGH NUMBER OF PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE WITH PARKING AT SHORT TERM RENTALS.
YOU KNOW, NOISE DISTURBANCE, YOU KNOW, TRASH OVERLOAD, ALL KINDS OF SITUATIONS.
WOULD THAT EVEN BE A POSSIBILITY TO CHANGE THAT TO LIKE A ZERO INSTEAD OF R1? WE WILL CERTAINLY PUT THAT ON OUR LIST OF CONCERNS.
OKAY. I MEAN, COULD YOU. THAT'S A GOOD ONE, JOHN.
HOW WOULD WE LET'S SAY WE WANTED TO. DONNA. YEAH.
I MEAN, BEFORE WE GET INTO THIS WHOLE STR DIVERSION, I DON'T WANT TO CALL IT DIVERSION, MEANING A DIVERSION, BUT THERE IS AN STR COMMITTEE THAT'S ACTIVE RIGHT NOW.
THERE'S ALSO A COMP PLAN THAT'S ACTIVE. SO THAT MAY ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES.
YES. SO THE PARKING ISSUES SPECIFICALLY ALSO.
SO I DON'T NECESSARILY WANT THE HOUR OR SO LEFT THAT'S LEFT OF THIS MEETING TO, TO BE DIVERTED TO SOMETHING THAT IS ACTUALLY ACTIVELY BEING DISCUSSED IN SOME OTHER MEETINGS, SOME OTHER GROUPS. SO THE PARKING ISSUES BEING DISCUSSED BY THE PARKING O IN RELATION TO STRS AND SOME OTHER ISSUES WITH A LAUNDRY LIST. YEAH, YEAH YEAH, YEAH.
YEAH. YEAH. CAN WE GO BACK AND SEE THE OTHER THE LIST THAT STAFF HAD? YEAH. SO THESE WERE THE THINGS THAT WE THE CONCERNS THAT THE COMMISSION HAS IDENTIFIED.
COVE CONFLICT, GEOGRAPHIC AREAS WHERE IT MAY BE APPROPRIATE, MAY NOT UTILITY ACCESS.
PARTICULAR ACCESS. PARKING REQUIREMENT. SETBACKS FROM THE ALLEY.
SO WE AGREE THAT WE NEED TO RESOLVE THE CODE CONFLICT.
SO WE'LL WORK ON YOU KNOW, DOING SOME NEW LANGUAGE THAT WILL RESOLVE THAT.
SO IT'S CLEAR WHAT IT MEANS. STAFF WOULD RECOMMEND A GEOGRAPHIC AREA OF R1 AND UN.
SO SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL ONE AND URBAN NEIGHBORHOOD EAST OF 61ST STREET.
THEY DON'T OCCUR WEST OF 61ST STREET. BUT WE COULD MAKE CODIFY IT TO BE SURE THAT THEY DON'T.
UTILITY ACCESS. WE'VE HEARD FROM ROB ABOUT EASEMENTS AND THAT WE NEED TO ENSURE THAT THERE ARE UTILITY ACCESS FROM BOTH LOTS, FROM THE FRONT TO THE ALLEY AND FROM THE ALLEY ACCESS LOT TO THE FRONT.
VEHICULAR ACCESS, I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THAT. SO WE KEEP THINKING ABOUT IT.
PARKING REQUIREMENT, STAFFS RECOMMENDING ONE OFF STREET PARKING SPACE.
I THINK THAT COMMISSIONER LIGHTFOOT HAS AT LEAST TWO SETBACKS FROM THE ALLEY.
YOU TALKED BEFORE ABOUT THAT THERE'S NOT A LOT OF MANEUVERABILITY.
AND SO IF YOU'VE GOT ROB WAS EXPRESSING CONCERNS ABOUT ZERO LOT LINE ALONG THE ALLEY INTERFERING WITH UTILITIES, WE WERE ALSO THINKING ABOUT THE ABILITY TO MANEUVER YOUR CAR INTO A PARKING SPACE IN, LIKE, A GARAGE APARTMENT SITUATION. ENCROACHMENTS INTO THE ALLEY.
SO THAT'S REALLY A SAFETY CONCERN. THE MINIMUM WIDTH OF THE ALLEY HAS TO BE 20FT, WHICH IS THE STANDARD WIDTH, AND THEN REQUIRE PAVING. CAN WE ADD WHERE WE HAVE UTILITY ACCESS? HE ALSO BROUGHT UP THAT THE PROTECTION OF THE UTILITIES, BECAUSE THERE ARE THE METERS THAT ARE RIGHT THERE IN THE ALLEY THAT HE HAD A CONCERN ABOUT PROTECTING THE INFRASTRUCTURE. SO WE DON'T WANT TO DAMAGE THE INFRASTRUCTURE BY I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SAY THAT MORE ELOQUENTLY, BUT YEAH, WE CAN RUN THAT BY AND SEE IF HE HAS SOME SOME THOUGHTS ON THAT.
[00:50:03]
YEAH. BECAUSE HE WAS HE TALKED ABOUT DRAINAGE ON THE LOTS AND JUST A LOT OF THINGS THAT COULD BE IMPACTED BY DRAINAGE.I DON'T THINK SOMETHING THAT WE HAD ON OUR LIST. YEAH, BECAUSE IT'S TRUE. THEY ALL ARE.
MOST OF THE LOTS ARE BUILT TO DRAIN TO THE STREET.
AS TIM WEIGHED IN ON THIS. DID I MISS THAT? DID YOU WAIT DID YOU WEIGH IN ON THIS IN THE VERY BEGINNING? I DID A LITTLE BIT AT THE BEGINNING. SO. SO I'M JUST GOING TO, YOU KNOW, I KNOW YOU'RE FIXING TO LEAVE US.
AND GOOD FOR YOU. THANK YOU. CONGRATULATIONS.
BUT AS A PLANNING PROFESSIONAL, YOU KNOW, AS A PLANNING PROFESSIONAL.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS? I MEAN, WHERE? YEAH. GIVE ME YOUR GIVE ME YOUR TAKE ON HOW YOU THINK WE SHOULD HANDLE THIS.
WELL, I THINK YOU'RE GOING DOWN THE RIGHT ROAD. BECAUSE IT IS IT IS UNIQUE.
YOU KNOW, MY FIRST CITY WAS PASADENA, AND EVERYTHING WAS BUILT, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY AFTER THE 30S, ESSENTIALLY. AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF THESE DENSITY ISSUES THAT GALVESTON HAS HISTORICALLY HAD.
SO I THINK THE PLANNING COMMUNITY IS, IS UP TO SOLVE THINGS.
THAT'S REALLY WHAT THIS IS ABOUT. SO SO A LOT OF CITIES DON'T HAVE THESE ISSUES THAT WE HAVE.
I MEAN, YOU SEE, IN TERMS OF RESTRICTIONS AND CONFLICTS IN ALLEYS LIKE IN THE STRAND, FOR EXAMPLE YOU KNOW, ALL OF OUR ALLEYS ARE PLATTED AT 20. MOST OF THEM STILL ARE 20.
YEAH. WE CLEARLY WHERE WE DON'T HAVE A 20 FOOT ALLEY.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY MUCH ROOM FOR ALLOWING SOMETHING THAT WOULD ACCESS.
THEY MAKE IT THROUGH. EVEN THOUGH FIRE LANES, 20FT, THE ALLEYS ARE 20FT.
THOSE EDGES ARE USED FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR FOR WHERE THE GARBAGE CANS ARE UP AGAINST THE EDGES.
THE WATER METERS ARE UP AGAINST THE EDGES. LIKE I SAID, IN THE STRAND, THEY HAVE UTILITY POLES THAT COME UP LIKE THIS COME ACROSS, AND ALL THAT STUFF'S ON THE TOP OF THE THE HORIZONTAL MEMBER.
ALL THOSE EDGES ARE GOING TO BE. IN USE OF SOME SORT.
SO WE HAVE TO ASSUME THAT THERE'S SOME, YOU KNOW, DISTANCE ON EITHER SIDE THAT REALLY AREN'T GOING TO BE APPLICABLE FOR, FOR ACCESS. AGAIN WITH VEHICULAR AND PARKING ISSUES.
WE REQUIRE IN STANDARD SINGLE FAMILY A OFF STREET PARKING SPACE.
THERE SHOULD BE NO DIFFERENT HERE. IF, FOR EXAMPLE, SOMEBODY IS ABLE TO PUT THEIR HOUSE UP AGAINST ONE SIDE AND THEN PULLING PULL IN FROM THE ALLEY ALONGSIDE IT, THAT'S A HECK OF A LOT BETTER SITUATION THAN HAVING A, IN MY OPINION, A PARALLEL WHERE THE WHERE THE BUILDING WOULD BE SET BACK SOME.
I THINK IT'D BE. IT'S JUST MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE TO HAVE A PULL IN SPACE BECAUSE IT'S MORE EFFICIENT ON THE LOT, AND IT'S MORE EFFICIENT WITH HOW THAT UNIT WILL LIKELY BE DESIGNED.
SO, BUT IT'S A GOOD IT'S A GOOD THOUGHT THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT WE SHOULD BE REQUIRING PARKING AND THEN WHERE, WHERE ENFORCEMENT HAS TO REALLY STEP UP, IN MY OPINION, IS WHERE PEOPLE ARE LIKE IN YOUR SUBDIVISION, WHERE THEY'RE PARKING THE ALLEY. THAT SHOULD NEVER OCCUR.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY GETTING, GETTING, GETTING TO THOSE CONFLICTS AND, AND ENFORCEMENT ASPECTS OF IT, THAT'S GOING TO BE SORT OF STEP TWO. BUT IT SHOULD BE COGNIZANT IN ALL OF OUR MINDS WHEN WE'RE GENERATING WHAT WE THINK OUGHT TO HAPPEN HERE.
LET'S SEE HERE WHAT WOULD THE WHAT WOULD THE ADVANTAGES BE TO LOOKING AT PROS AND CONS? WHAT ARE WHAT ARE THE ADVANTAGES OF PERMITTING, YOU KNOW, DIVIDING THESE LOTS UP AND HAVING ALLEY ACCESS.
DO YOU SEE SOME ADVANTAGE? THERE ARE SOME ADVANTAGES.
CLEARLY. I THINK YOU KNOW, LIKE SOME OF THE FINDINGS THAT VISION GALVESTON MADE IS THE MORE HOUSING STOCK YOU HAVE, THE CHEAPER THAT HOUSING STOCK IS LIKELY TO BE.
[00:55:02]
SO IS THERE A WORLD WHERE WE COULD HAVE SOME CONTINUED INCREASED DENSITY? WE ALREADY HAVE THE ALLOWANCE AGAIN FOR YOU KNOW, THE SINGLE UNIT FOR THE PRIMARY AND THEN THE ACCESSORY AND IS, IS THIS REALLY THAT MUCH DIFFERENT EXCEPT FOR THE ACCESS ISSUES? IS IT REALLY THAT MUCH DIFFERENT? IT'S NOT REALLY ANY DIFFERENT FROM A DENSITY STANDPOINT.IN FACT, YOU KNOW, IT COULD BE ARGUABLE THAT, IF THOSE UNITS ARE SORT OF FOCUSED ON EACH END OF THE LOT, IT COULD BE CONCEIVED AS MORE EFFECTIVE. YOU KNOW, SO OBVIOUSLY THERE'S THERE'S GOOD SIDES TO THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE ADDITIONAL QUANTITIES OF HOUSING THAT COULD BE DEVELOPED.
WE ALL KNOW THAT BASICALLY FAMILY SIZE HAS GONE DOWN OVER THE LAST SEVERAL DECADES.
IT'S CONTINUING TO GO DOWN. AND SO SMALLER UNITS ARE BECOMING MORE THE NORM.
YET HERE WE ARE, YOU KNOW, BUILDING OF THE 150 HOMES A YEAR THAT WE BUILD IN THIS IN THIS CITY, A GREAT MAJORITY OF THEM ARE HUGE. AND AND, YOU KNOW, WORTH CONSIDERABLY MORE THAN MOST NORMAL PEOPLE CAN AFFORD.
SO THERE'S A NEED I THINK IT WOULD HELP IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, THAT DENSITY ENHANCEMENT WOULD HELP.
BUT. BUT THERE'S A LIMIT TO. THERE SHOULD BE A LIMIT.
YOU KNOW HOW FAR WE TAKE THAT? LET'S SEE. THERE WAS ONE OTHER POINT.
OH, I KNOW THE POINT I WAS GOING TO MAKE TO YOU GUYS ABOUT CONSIDERING.
SO SO THE THE LAST THERE WAS A CASE THAT WE HAD WAS THAT AT LANDMARK WHERE SOME OR MAYBE IT WAS WITH YOU GUYS. I'M. IT'S ALL GOING.
IT'S A BLUR TO ME RIGHT NOW, BUT WE HAD A CASE WHERE THERE WAS A GAL WHO WAS TRYING TO BUILD TWO HOMES IN AN AREA, AND THERE WERE A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT, DID YOU PLAN TO DO THIS OR NOT? OR IT WAS OUT NEAR HEARDS LANE. YOU REMEMBER THAT CASE? WAS THAT? THAT WAS IN ZBA. I'M SORRY. OKAY. OKAY.
YEAH. I'M GETTING MY COMMISSIONS MIXED UP. SO THERE ARE THERE ARE CASES WHERE PEOPLE DESIGN STUFF.
ALMOST ON PURPOSE TO ANTICIPATE GETTING AROUND THE CODE WITH SOME ZBA ACTION OR SOMETHING.
THAT WAS A CASE THAT, IN MY OPINION, WAS CLEARLY THAT.
BUT YOU KNOW, THE GAL MADE A POINT, AND IT'S A VALID POINT.
IF YOU HAVE TWO HOMES ON A LOT AND YOU KNOW, WHAT THAT INVITES IS EITHER A FAMILY MEMBER TO LIVE THERE OR, OR SOMEBODY THAT YOU'RE RENTING TO AND, AND IS THAT, YOU KNOW, COULD WE HAVE MORE EFFECTIVE HOME OWNERSHIP CRITERIA AND RESULTS IF WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, THOSE TWO UNITS BEING ABLE TO BE CONVEYED AND BOUGHT BY SOMEBODY, THERE'S AN UPSIDE TO THAT. BUT AGAIN, IT ALL, IN MY OPINION, HAS TO BE TEMPERED WITH WHAT SEEMS TO BE LOGICAL AND NECESSARY FOR ADEQUATE SAFETY. I DON'T THINK, FRANKLY, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE MUCH RISK OF PEOPLE RUNNING OVER THE THE METER BOXES AND THINGS BECAUSE THEY'RE RIGHT AT THE PROPERTY LINE.
NOBODY'S. WELL, I SAY THIS, YOU KNOW, I SAY NOBODY'S DRIVING RIGHT UP AGAINST THE EDGE.
BUT MAYBE MAYBE THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE PARKING THERE, AND THAT SHOULDN'T BE THE CASE.
SO IT TO ME, I THINK WE SHOULD WE SHOULD LOOK AT THIS FROM THE RISK STANDPOINT.
WHAT ARE THE REAL RISKS OF OF ACTUALLY HAPPENING AND OCCURRING? I DON'T FRANKLY, I DON'T THINK THAT WE'RE GOING TO GET, YOU KNOW, A FIVE TIMES DENSITY ON THAT MAP THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT THE MARKET RIGHT NOW IS PULLING BACK WITH, WITH SOME OF THE DEMAND, ESPECIALLY ON STR.
IT'S REALLY WE'VE SEEN THIS SIGNIFICANTLY OVER THE LAST YEAR.
THE STRS ARE, THE DEMAND FOR THEM HAVE COME DOWN, AND FOLKS THAT BOUGHT DURING COVID ARE STARTING TO BACK OFF THAT AND SELLING THE UNITS NOW. SO THERE'S A BIT OF A GLUT. AND WHILE THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE A DEMAND FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING ESPECIALLY IN THIS CITY I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A DEMAND, YOU KNOW, THAT OVERRUNS THIS IF WE'RE GETTING THREE OR 4 OR 5 A YEAR.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHICH IS WHAT WE'VE KIND OF BEEN GETTING ON THIS.
IS THAT IS THAT AN UNACCEPTABLE AMOUNT OF. SO JUST SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT.
[01:00:10]
OKAY. THANKS. I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION ABOUT JUST THE TIMELINE.SO I THINK I WASN'T HERE WHENEVER THE FIRST ONE OF THESE CAME AND SPARKED THIS DISCUSSION. SO I'M JUST TRYING TO SO WE STARTED OFF WITH WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO SPLIT THE LOT, RIGHT? IS THAT LIKE, WE DON'T WANT A LOT SPLIT FRONT AND BACK? NO, I THINK IT WAS JUST. IT WAS ALLEY ACCESS ONLY.
OKAY. WHEN ALLEY CAN'T HANDLE. RIGHT, RIGHT. BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING IS WE DIDN'T WANT PEOPLE TO SPLIT A LOT SUCH THAT YOU'D HAVE A ONE THAT ONLY HAD ALLEY ACCESS IF THE ALLEY CAN'T HANDLE IT. OKAY. RIGHT. RIGHT, RIGHT. YEAH. AND THEN HAVE BEEN SEEN IN A WHILE.
OKAY. AND THAT'S WHY THE CONVERSATION STARTED.
RIGHT. OKAY. AND THEN NOW WE'RE WE'RE LOOKING AT JUST ALLEY ACCESS LOTS BUILDING ON THEM IN GENERAL.
SO LIKE LIKE WHAT IF SOMEBODY HAD, YOU KNOW, A 5000 SQUARE FOOT LOT? THEY SPLIT IT IN TWO, YOU KNOW, FRONT AND BACK, YOU KNOW, FACING ALLEY FACING AND AND THEN THEY, BUT THEY ALREADY HAD AN ADU ON ONE AND THEY HAD A HOUSE ON THE OTHER.
ARE WE GOING TO TELL THEM. NO ON THE SPLITTING THE LOT OR LIKE WHAT'S WHAT'S THE RULING ON THAT.
I'M GOING TO TAKE A SHOT AT THIS. SO AND I'M JUST GOING TO PLAY WITH WHAT THE NUMBERS WOULD BE.
SO GUY SHOWS UP, BUYS TWO 5000 SQUARE FOOT LOTS.
JUST. I'M JUST USING THAT JUST FOR MATH. HE TAKES SO HE'S GOT 10,000FT².
SO NOW INSTEAD OF HAVING TWO 5000 SQUARE FOOT LOTS, NOW WE END UP WITH THREE 3300 SQUARE FOOT LOTS.
OKAY. SO WE'VE GREATLY INCREASED THE DENSITY.
AND THIS KIND OF STARTED OF OH, AS A DEVELOPER, GREAT IDEA.
BUT YOU'RE SITTING HERE LOOKING AT OUR CITY, IT'S LIKE.
AND THEN ALSO THIS WAS ALSO KIND OF PRESENTED OF BACK TO THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING DEAL.
WE SAW THAT FIRST CASE. IT'S BEEN A WHILE. YEAH.
IT WAS OKAY. YOU KNOW STR HAS DEFINITELY BEEN THE HOT BUTTON.
WHAT HAPPENS IS WE DO THIS STUFF. IT'S LIKE, OKAY, THREE LOTS IS BETTER THAN TWO.
NOW WE'RE GOING TO BUILD SOME AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
WELL, NONE OF IT GETS TURNED INTO AFFORDABLE HOUSING. IT GETS TURNED INTO STRS INSTEAD.
YEAH. AND IT'S ESTABLISHED AN ESTABLISHED COMMUNITY.
THESE PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT STRS IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS.
AND NOW WE'RE OPENING THE PAN. THIS IS HOW I SEE IT.
AND THE FIVE WE'RE ADDING ARE NOT GOING TO BE AFFORDABLE HOMES.
THEY'RE GOING TO BE MORE STRS, AND WE'RE GOING TO JUST HOW I LOOK AT THIS AND STILL DO TO SOME DEGREE IS, IS THIS IS GOING TO CRUSH THOSE COMMUNITIES. THEY'LL THEY'LL BECOME NONEXISTENT.
THEY WILL NOT LOOK THE SAME. I MEAN, AND A LOT OF THOSE AREAS WHERE WE'RE LOOKING AT IN THE THIS WOULD PROBABLY BE A LOT OF THOSE ARE IN THE 30S THAT THAT BLOCK THAT'S PROBABLY FROM ABOUT 30TH OVER TO 50TH AND SOUTH OF BROADWAY, PROBABLY TO STUART.
I MEAN, YOU COULD NOT BE MORE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FREAKING CITY.
I MEAN, I LIVED. YEAH. THAT'S RIGHT. AND I JUST GO, WAIT A MINUTE.
FOR ME, I'M LIKE, WE REALLY NEED TO LOOK AT THIS BECAUSE I'M CONCERNED WITH WHAT? YEAH, WE NEED THE HOUSING AND YEAH, WE NEED CHEAPER HOUSING.
I THINK WE GOT TO REALLY TAKE A THAT'S WHERE I STEP BACK AND GO, MAN, WE REALLY NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS AND MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT GOING THE WRONG WAY. YEAH. YEAH. AND I AND I TOTALLY GET THAT.
YOU KNOW, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, PART OF MY CONCERN IS, YOU KNOW, ONE, JUST PEOPLE'S PRIVATE PROPERTY.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THEY IF YOU OWN A PIECE OF LAND, YOU SHOULD MORE OR LESS, YOU KNOW, WITHIN LIMITS, BE ABLE TO DO WHAT YOU WANT WITH IT. YOU KNOW, THE OTHER ONE IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A HISTORICAL DEVELOPMENT PATTERN THAT WE'VE HAD IN GALVESTON FOR FAR LONGER THAN ANY OF US HAVE BEEN HERE OR EVEN ALIVE, PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, IT'S I MEAN, IT'S THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING ISSUE AS WELL.
YOU KNOW, THESE ARE OPPORTUNITIES TO CREATE, YOU KNOW, UNITS THAT, YOU KNOW, A MIDDLE INCOME OR A LOW INCOME FAMILY COULD RENT OR, YOU KNOW, OWN. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, I JUST I DON'T REALLY SEE IT THAT WAY.
[01:05:03]
YOU KNOW AS FAR AS THE COMMUNITY, THERE'S ONE DIFFERENCE, THOUGH, WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE HISTORICAL ASPECT OF IT, THAT MOST OF THOSE, IN MY OPINION, I DON'T HAVE ANY EVIDENCE TO STATE THIS FOR CERTAIN, BUT MOST OF THEM WERE OWNED BY THE SAME PEOPLE.THEY HAD THE GARAGE APARTMENT THAT THEY TURNED IN AND THEY RENTED IT OUT.
SO IT'S A SEPARATION OF THE OWNERSHIP OF THE TRACK.
YEAH. AND, YOU KNOW, I KNOW WE SEND OUT THE NOTICES THAT GO TO THE 200 FOOT RADIUS.
IT IS SURPRISING TO ME THAT THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE NEXT DOOR TO THOSE LOTS THAT ARE BEING SUBDIVIDED ARE THE ONES THAT LIVE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ALLEY, BECAUSE NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE NEW HOMES BEING BUILT.
YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TRAFFIC GOING UP AND DOWN THEIR ALLEY.
YEAH. WELL, I'M JUST SURPRISED THAT THEY DON'T COME OUT IN DROVES.
YOU KNOW, WITH THEIR COMMENTS OBJECTING. I KNOW I WOULD IF I, I DO WANT TO ADD THIS, YOU KNOW, SO I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, AND ALL OF THESE ARE CONCERNS, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULDN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS. I DEFINITELY THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME ISSUES HERE IS, YOU KNOW, THE CITY STAFF HAVE POINTED OUT YOU KNOW, I JUST WANT TO BE SURE THAT WHATEVER WE DO, WE'RE NOT GOING OVERBOARD OR TRYING TO REGULATE THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, MAY OR MAY NOT ACTUALLY HAPPEN JUST BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THIS OR THAT, YOU KNOW, TO THE COMMUNITY COMMENT, YOU KNOW, I DO THINK AND THIS IS SOMETHING I HEAR A LOT AROUND TOWN. SO I DO WANT TO ADDRESS IT IS, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, TO ME, COMMUNITIES, NEIGHBORS, YOU KNOW, THE MORE NEIGHBORS I HAVE THAT'S, YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY MORE COMMUNITY.
YOU KNOW, I LOVE THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE ON MY STREET.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LADY ON THE CORNER WHO SITS OUTSIDE MOST OF THE DAY AND LETS ME KNOW EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN GOING ON WHILE, YOU KNOW, I'M OFF IN HOUSTON OR AT WORK OR WHEREVER YOU KNOW, AND THERE'S THERE'S ACTUALLY THERE'S FOUR HOUSES ON I THINK IT'S A 5000 SQUARE FOOT LOT.
NOW THAT'S HISTORICAL. YOU KNOW, THIS IS PROBABLY FROM A TIME BEFORE THERE WAS EVEN ZONING.
BUT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, TO ME THAT THAT IS GALVESTON'S COMMUNITY, YOU KNOW.
AND I MEAN, I'LL TELL YOU, I LIVED IN A PLACE LIKE SUGARLAND WHERE, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE VERY, VERY STRICT AND EVERY HOUSE IS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THREE DESIGNS AND, YOU KNOW, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE LOOK AT THAT AND THEY GO, WELL, THIS IS COMMUNITY. BUT I TELL YOU, YOU KNOW, ALL MY NEIGHBORS, THEY DRIVE INTO THEIR GARAGE AND GET OUT OF THEIR CAR AND WANDER AROUND.
YOU KNOW, I MEAN, THERE WAS NO COMMUNITY THERE.
AND SO I WANT TO BE SURE THAT WE ARE ABLE TO PRESERVE WHAT MAKES GALVESTON UNIQUE.
AND I THINK THAT COMMUNITY IS A BIG PART OF IT. YOU KNOW, I AGREE WITH YOU. I THINK THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT. BUT I KIND OF THINK, YOU KNOW, I'M A LITTLE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT. WELL, I THINK I THINK WE'RE TALKING SPEED BUMPS.
I JUST WAS NOT ROADBLOCKS. I THINK THAT THERE'S A MIDDLE GROUND FOR ALL OF US.
AND I THINK THAT I'M NOT A I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE STARS.
I FEEL LIKE WE EVERYBODY BENEFITS FROM THE TAXES THAT WE RECEIVE FROM THE STR.
AND I PERSONALLY, I DON'T WANT TO GO DOWN THAT ROAD, BUT DON'T FEEL IT'S FAIR THAT SOME PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, SUFFER WHATEVER HAPPENS WITH AN STR AND OTHERS DON'T.
I DON'T, BUT THEY STILL GET THE BENEFIT OF THE TAXES.
YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? AND WITH THAT QUARTER OF AN ACRE, THEY HAD TO SPLIT IT.
THAT'S HOW YOU GOT LOT SIZES ALL THE WAY DOWN TO 2500FT².
SO IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT IN THOSE TERMS, I MEAN, YOU REALIZE THAT THE REASON THEY SPECIFY 2500FT² IN CERTAIN AREAS AND 5000 IN OTHERS IS BECAUSE THAT NEIGHBORHOOD IS THAT'S THE CHARACTER OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD.
SO IF I BUY 10,000FT² AND THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, CONSECUTIVE SQUARE FEET, AND I WANT TO DIVIDE THEM BY FOUR, I HAVE 2500FT². I'M WITHIN THE RULES OF THE LDR IN THAT COMMUNITY.
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. YEAH. AND I DON'T YOU KNOW, THE OTHER THING I DO WANT TO POINT OUT IS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THERE'S AN ISSUE. AND THIS HAPPENS A LOT IN GALVESTON. WE HAVE SO MANY OLDER HOMES AND GENERATIONAL HOMES WHERE, YOU KNOW, YOU GET SOMEBODY WHO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THEY THEY INHERITED A HOME FROM SOMEBODY THEY HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO MAINTAIN IT.
YOU KNOW, ANYBODY WHO'S BEEN IN THIS AREA KNOWS, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE ALL OVER THE PLACE.
I MEAN, I'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, ONE NEARBY. AND IN FACT, I KNOW A GUY A FEW BLOCKS AWAY.
REAL FRIENDLY GUY. I MEAN, THIS GUY WAS PROBABLY BORN AND RAISED HERE. I'VE NEVER ASKED, BUT, YOU KNOW, HE SEEMS LIKE THE KIND OF GUY WHO WAS. AND, YOU KNOW, HE SOLD THE. HE SPLIT HIS HOUSE, YOU KNOW, SPLIT HIS LOT, SOLD THE ONE NEXT TO IT, AND HE'S BEEN ABLE TO USE THE MONEY HE MADE FROM THAT TO START REPAIRING HIS HOME.
YOU KNOW, I MEAN, AND THIS WAS A PLACE WITH A CRUMBLING PORCH, YOU KNOW, I CAN ONLY IMAGINE WHAT ELSE WAS GOING ON THERE. SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THERE ARE THERE'S A LOT OF REASONS THAT SOMEBODY MIGHT DO THIS.
SO, YOU KNOW, I DO THINK, JOHN, I LIKE SOME OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS YOU'VE PUT TOGETHER.
I REALLY LIKE WHAT STAFF'S DONE. I MEAN, I DEFINITELY THINK THERE'S SOME THINGS WE CAN DO ON THIS.
I JUST WANT TO, YOU KNOW, I DON'T I DON'T WANT US TO GO OVERBOARD, YOU KNOW?
[01:10:03]
AND I AGREE WITH YOU. TOM. STAN. STAN! STAN, YOU'VE BEEN QUIET.AND IF YOU WOULD PLEASE GO BACK. WHAT WAS IT? OR GO FORWARD, I GUESS IT WOULD BE FROM. THERE.
OKAY. THOSE ARE SOLUTIONS THAT THAT HAVE BEEN TALKED ABOUT.
AND AND ONE OF THEM THAT'S BEEN TALKED ABOUT IS SETBACKS THAT I LIKE.
I'M TALKING BULLET POINTS FOR ME, SETBACKS FROM ALLEY UTILITY ACCESS ALLEY TYPES.
AND I KIND OF POOH POOHED ME ON THE ALLEY TYPES.
BUT IF YOU SEE WHAT THEY'RE DOING HERE AND THIS IS THEIR THEIRS, NOT OURS, SEE, WHAT THEY'RE DOING THERE IS THEY'RE GIVING YOU SOME SET CONDITIONS TO EVEN CONSIDER HAVING A HAVING A UNIT. THAT'S X AXIS.
SO I THINK THAT IS KIND OF WHY I WANT YOU TO KIND OF CIRCLE BACK.
AND HOW COULD WE WORD THAT AND MAKE AN ALLEY TYPE AND MAKE IT WORK.
OKAY. I KNOW I CAN'T BUILD I KNOW I CAN'T DO IT ON THIS ONE BECAUSE X, Y, Z OR THE STAFF CAN COME UP AND SAY, WELL, WE SHOULD NOT RECOMMEND THIS BECAUSE OF X, Y, Z, BECAUSE IT'S THE ALI TYPE IS NOT SUITABLE FOR WHAT THE RESIDENT WANTS TO DO.
YEAH. VERY GOOD. I AGREE. CAN I STAND? CAN I BRING US BACK? CAN I ADD ONE THING REAL QUICK ABOUT THE PLANNING AND A LOT ISSUE? AS YOU KNOW, OUR A LOT OF THESE SUBDIVISIONS ARE ARE MINISTERIAL IN NATURE.
SOME OF THEM ARE THAT YOU GUYS SEE THE SMALL ONES LIKE THIS.
IT HELPS US IF WE HAVE A CODE THAT SAYS YOU CAN'T DO IT IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES, BECAUSE THEN THAT KICKS IN THE RULE THAT YOU COULD, YOU KNOW, DENY A PLAT IF IT DOESN'T MEET CODE.
OKAY, SO JUST BEAR THAT IN MIND. IF WE HAVE A SET OF REGULATIONS THAT YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALL COMFORTABLE WITH, WE MOVE FORWARD TO THE COUNCIL. THEN THAT WILL HELP YOU ALL HAVE THOSE PLANS GO FROM, YOU KNOW, MINISTERIAL TO AN ACTION THAT'S HAS SOME DISCRETION.
YEAH. THERE'S NOTHING DIFFERENT ABOUT THE ALLEY LIGHTS. THEY STILL HAVE TO BE A MINIMUM LOT SIZE.
UNLESS THE LOT IS SMALL, YOU CAN MAKE THEM ALL WORK.
YOU JUST GOT TO MAKE YOUR HOUSE SMALLER. SO YOU KNOW, SO I MEAN THAT'S GOING TO BE IT'S GOING TO BE HARD TO NOT GET AN ALLEY LOT IF THE PERSON IS WILLING TO SHRINK THE FOOTPRINT OF THEIR HOUSE BECAUSE THEY CAN THEY CAN FIGURE OUT A WAY TO PARK.
ALL OF THAT JUST DEPENDS ON THE THE BUILDER. SEE, NOT ALL ATHLETES ARE 20FT WIDE, DON'T SAY THAT.
YEAH. DON'T SAY THAT. DOES IT MEET THAT CRITERIA? THE ALLEY ITSELF MEET THE CRITERIA FOR HAVING THAT ABILITY TO DO THAT.
AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING TO LOOK AT THE SAME THING.
OKAY. WELL, IT'S 3:20, SO WE WANT A LITTLE BIT OF TIME TO MOVE INTO OUR NEXT MEETING.
BOY, WE'RE REALLY LATE. SORRY TO DISAPPOINT YOU, BUT IT'S ALSO ON OUR REGULAR AGENDA, SO WE'LL GO OVER AWARDS AT THE END OF REGULAR AGENDA. AND THEN YOU HAVE TWO HANDOUTS. WELL, YOU HAVE THREE.
AND THEN THE LAST SHEET ARE THE THIS YEAR'S PENDING NOMINATIONS.
OKAY, SO WHILE YOU'RE THINKING OF NOMINATIONS, WHAT DOES THE NOMINATION PROCESS START WHENEVER YOU DON'T LIKE PUT IT OUT THERE ON THE FACEBOOK OR SOMETHING. AUGUST. AUGUST. OKAY. AS THE COMMISSION CAN NOMINATE ANY AT ANY TIME.
BUT. YEAH, BUT I GAVE YOU THE LIST OF ALL THE ONES WE'VE PREVIOUSLY DONE.
OKAY. BISHOP. OKAY. TRUSTEE STAN OPENS THE MEETING.
WELL, THE SENIOR MEMBER. SO IF YOU DON'T HAVE SENIORS, YOU KNOW HOW PITIFUL IT WAS.
I SERIOUSLY DID NOT SEE THE TIME CHANGE. I SO I ALMOST DIDN'T.
THE LAST. MEETING'S ADJOURNED. THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT TO SAY? MEETING ADJOURNED. WE WENT TO WATER FITNESS TODAY.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.