[1. Call Meeting to Order] [00:00:06] TODAY IS MAY 6TH, AND IT IS 2:34. AND WE'RE CALLING THIS MEETING OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP TO ORDER SO THAT WE CAN ADDRESS THESE ITEMS. WE HAVE A QUORUM. WE PASSED AROUND A SIGN IN SHEET, AND WE HAVE ATTENDANCE NOTED THROUGH OUR ATTENDANCE SHEET. ARE THERE ANY CONFLICT OF INTEREST WITH THIS WORKSHOP THAT WE HAVE TODAY? NO. SEEING NONE, WE'LL MOVE ON TO OUR DISCUSSION ITEMS. [4.A Alley Access Lots] OUR FIRST ITEM, AND I THINK OUR ONLY ITEM, WHICH HAS A LOT OF POINTS, IS ALLEY ACCESS TO LOTS. YES. OKAY. WHO'S GOING TO DO THIS? ARE YOU DOING THIS ? SIT AT THE TABLE SO WE CAN HAVE MORE OF A CONVERSATION. OKAY. COME SIT AT OUR TABLE. CATHERINE, LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS. I WILL NOTE THAT WE WERE INVITED AS PLANNING COMMISSIONERS TO SEND OUR QUESTIONS TO THE CITY, AND THE CITY HAS RESPONDED. WE HAVE RESPONSES FROM PUBLIC SAFETY, FROM PLANNING, FROM WHO ALL RESPONDED? YES. SO CHRIS HARRISON, THE FIRE MARSHAL WHO JUST WALKED IN AND IS HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS FOR US, RESPONDED. CHIEF VALLEY THE POLICE CHIEF, ROB WINIECKE, WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF INFRASTRUCTURE AND ENGINEERING. WE CALL WE COMMONLY CALL HIM THE CITY ENGINEER. SANITATION, DUSTIN BENDER AND THEN PLANNING. OKAY. VERY GOOD. THANK YOU FOR LOTS OF DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS. OKAY. SO WE SAID THAT THE RESPONSE IS OUT ABOUT 5:30 LAST NIGHT. SO YOU HAVEN'T HAD A TON OF TIME TO LOOK AT THEM. THEY WERE REALLY GOOD QUESTIONS. WE SUBDIVIDED THEM INTO DIFFERENT CATEGORIES PUBLIC SAFETY, PUBLIC WORKS, SANITATION AND PLANNING. OH, AND THEN THERE WAS A QUESTION ABOUT MAIL SERVICE. WE SUBMITTED THAT TO THE USPS, BUT I HAVEN'T HEARD BACK FROM THEM YET, SO WE'LL KEEP YOU POSTED ON THAT. IF YOU WANT TO, WE CAN INVITE THE FIRE MARSHAL UP AND ASK IF WE COULD DO THAT. AND THEN THEN WE CAN LET HIM GO BE RESPECTFUL OF HIS TIME. DO YOU WANT TO COME JOIN US AT THE TABLE? SURE. THIS IS CHRIS HARRISON, HE'S THE CITY'S FIRE MARSHAL. HE ANSWERED THE QUESTIONS IN WRITING. BUT ALSO OFFERED TO BE HERE TODAY TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS IN PERSON. SO IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT FIREFIGHTING AND PUBLIC SAFETY. CHRIS IS ALSO AN EMT, SO HE CAN ANSWER ALL KINDS OF VARIOUS QUESTIONS. EXCELLENT. GREAT. WOULD YOU LIKE TO GIVE US AN OVERVIEW OF KIND OF WHAT YOU HOW YOU RESPONDED ON THESE QUESTIONS THAT WE ASKED? DO YOU REMEMBER? WOULD YOU LIKE? SURE. NO. SO MY UNDERSTANDING THE QUESTION REVOLVED AROUND ALLEY ACCESS LOTS THAT HAVE ALLEY ACCESS ONLY AND WHETHER OR NOT THAT WAS A HINDRANCE TO FIREFIGHTING EFFORTS. I WILL TELL YOU, IT'S NOT SOMETHING WE THOROUGHLY ENJOY, BUT WE MAKE DO WITH IT. IT'S WE'VE HAD SOME FIRES IN THE PAST THAT HAVE BEEN CHALLENGING FOR US, BUT WE ATTEMPT NOT TO COMMIT APPARATUS INTO THE ALLEYWAY SINCE THEY'RE SO NARROW. AND THEN EACH FIRE WOULD BE CONSIDERED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. WE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE SEVERELY LIMITED WITH, AND TYPICALLY ONLY COMES IN WITH TALLER BUILDINGS, IS LADDER ACCESS, BECAUSE OUR LADDER TRUCKS ARE LARGE PIECES OF APPARATUS THAT REQUIRE OUTRIGGERS. SO INSTEAD OF THE NORMAL 20 FOOT, WHICH IS THE MINIMUM THAT WE WOULD ASK FOR, THAT GOES UP TO 26 OR 30FT. SO IF THERE WAS A MULTI-LEVEL HOUSE ON THE ALLEYWAY, LET'S SAY A STRUCTURE LIKE SOMEBODY HAD GONE VERTICAL ON A STRUCTURE, IT WOULD IT WOULD POSE A REAL BIG PROBLEM ON GETTING ACCESS TO IT VIA ON WHAT YOU WOULD NORMALLY THINK THE ALLEYWAY WOULD BE YOU WOULD BE INSTEAD HAVING TO GO TO THE ADJACENT PRIMARY STREET AND TO, TO REALLY GET THE ELEVATION YOU WANTED TO, TO BOW DOWN ON THE FIRE? YES. BECAUSE WHEN WE FIGURE IF THERE'S A NEED TO USE AN AERIAL APPARATUS OR A LADDER TRUCK, THERE'S THE HEIGHT, BUT THERE'S ALSO AN ANGLE AT WHICH THE LADDER BECOMES UNUSABLE. AND SO WE ASKED FOR A 15 TO 30 FOOT OFFSET FROM THE FACE OF THE BUILDING. SO THAT CAN INCREASE THE WIDTH. AND YOU SEE THAT AT LARGE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENTS THAT HAVE PLENTY OF ROOM WITH FIRE LANES AROUND THEM IN THE ALLEYWAYS, WE JUST WE HAVE TO MAKE DO WITH WHAT WE CAN. SO SOMETIMES WE MAY HAVE TO DO SHORTEN THE OUTRIGGERS ON A LADDER, WHICH PROVIDES A LITTLE LESS STABILITY, CAN SOMETIMES HINDER TO BE AT, OR THE WATER THAT WE'RE ALLOWED TO FLOW. SO WE PREFER NOT TO DO THAT. SO TYPICALLY WE DO THOSE WITH HAND LINES. SO IF YOU WERE FIGHTING A FIRE IN AN ALLEYWAY YOU'RE RELYING PRIMARILY ON THE PUMPER. IS THERE HYDRANTS ARE AVAILABLE NEAR MOST OF OUR ALLEYWAYS THAT ACCOMPLISH ANY GOOD AT ALL? [00:05:01] IT WOULD BE HARD TO SAY MOST BECAUSE THERE'S THERE'S BEEN A DIFFERENT STRATEGY IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE ISLAND OVER THE YEARS AS WE'VE DEVELOPED. I WOULD SAY YOUR TYPICAL DOWNTOWN, MOST OF THE ALLEYS DO HAVE THE HYDRANT LOCATED NEARBY. IF NOT, THEY'RE USUALLY ON A CORNER, THOUGH, SO THERE'S NOT REALLY AN INSTANCE IN THE MIDTOWN DOWNTOWN AREA WHERE WE'RE LIMITED BY THE NUMBER OF HYDRANTS. AND THEN ALL OF OUR HYDRANTS HAVE TO GIVE PUBLIC WORKS. VERY MUCH RESPECT ON THIS. BUT ALL OF OUR HYDRANTS GIVE US PLENTY OF WATER USUALLY. AND IF THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE OUT OF SERVICE FOR SOME REASON. WE KNOW AHEAD OF TIME. GREAT WORKING RELATIONSHIP. WOULD YOU SAY ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SHOULD BE STIPULATED ON GOING FORWARD WITH HAVING HOUSES ON THE ALLEY WOULD BE VICINITY OF A HYDRANT. WHAT LENGTH DO YOU. I MEAN, I KNOW YOU CAN REALLY LAY SOME LONG, LONG LINES WHICH ARE NOT IDEAL, BUT YOUR YOUR MOST EFFICIENT LENGTH MAXIMUM LENGTH WOULD BE 225. IN AN IDEAL WORLD, MOST EFFICIENTLY IT WOULD BE SHORT. SO WE CARRY ON EACH SIDE OF A PUMPER OR AN ENGINE. THAT'S OUR BASIC FIREFIGHTING APPARATUS. WE CARRY A SHORT SECTION, AND THE HOPE IS THAT IF AN ENGINE COMES TO REST, TO FIGHT A FIRE AT OR NEAR A HYDRANT, THAT DRIVER CAN JUST ATTACH BY HIMSELF. BUT WE CARRY UP TO 1000 FOOT OF FIVE INCH HOSE ON EACH PUMPER. THE LADDERS CARRY A LITTLE LESS BECAUSE THEY HAVE LESS SPACE, BUT WE CAN ESSENTIALLY LAY A FIVE INCH WATER MAIN ON TOP OF THE STREET AND GO FOR A WHILE WITH IT. WE'VE GOTTEN FAIRLY CREATIVE IN THE PAST WITH SOME OF OUR FIREFIGHTING EFFORTS ON SUPPLIES. WE'VE LAID LONGER THAN WE'RE SUPPOSED TO. WE'VE PULLED WATER OUT OF THE BAYOU AND PUSHED IT, YOU KNOW, UNDER PRESSURE THROUGH LONG LINES. BUT THE SHORTER THE BETTER, RIGHT? RIGHT. BECAUSE OF FRICTION LOSS. BUT IN THE FIVE INCH HOSE THAT WE USE FOR SUPPLY LINES, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF FRICTION LOSS ANYWAY. WE CAN ALMOST GET DOWN TO, YOU KNOW, REALLY CLOSE TO THE 20 PSI MINIMUM, TCEQ LIKES TO SEE. AND EVEN A LITTLE BELOW, IF WE HAD TO AND STILL HAVE PLENTY OF WATER LEFT OVER. SO WE'RE THINKING ABOUT 1000FT OF I'M TRYING TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING NOMINAL THAT A HYDRANT WOULD BE PLAYING A PART IN, IN DOING THIS. SO 1000 FOOT LINE WOULDN'T CAUSE ANY PROBLEMS. WELL, IT'D BE LESS THAN IDEAL. LIKE I SAID, THE SHORTER THE BETTER. SO, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE WITHIN A COUPLE HUNDRED FEET, I'D SAY. BUT THERE THERE ARE ALSO STANDARDS THAT THAT ARE ALREADY APPLIED THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD STANDARDS AND THROUGH PUBLIC WORK STANDARDS. AND THEN THEY USE AN APPENDIX OF THE FIRE CODE TO DETERMINE FIRE FLOW. AND BELIEVE IT OR NOT, A LOT OF OUR MIDTOWN STUFF, AND EVEN EVEN FARTHER WEST, IT ALREADY MEETS THOSE STANDARDS. IN THE CASES WITH LARGE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT, SAY, A LARGE MULTIFAMILY RESORT PROPERTY, IF THEY WERE TO BUILD ONE OF THOSE WOULD HAVE TO PUT IN THEIR OWN INTERNAL SYSTEM. BUT THEY USE THE SAME CALCULATIONS THAT WE WOULD USE THROUGH PUBLIC WORKS. SO IT'S, IT'S HARD TO SAY THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOME KIND OF LIMITING FACTOR LIKE THAT, ESPECIALLY IF YOU GET INTO THE DOWNTOWN AREA, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THOSE THOSE ISSUES BECAUSE THERE'S ALREADY AN ESTABLISHED HYDRANT SYSTEM. AND IF WE GET INTO THE THE HABIT OF PLACING ADDITIONAL HYDRANTS JUST SO WE CAN BE CLOSER TO LIKE AN ALLEY PROPERTY WE COULD DETRIMENTALLY AFFECT OTHER FLOWS. THE MARGINS ARE TOO CLOSE TOGETHER THAT COULD BE A PROBLEM. IT COULD BE AN ISSUE BECAUSE IF WE TRIED TO ATTACH TO MULTIPLE HYDRANTS TO STAY ON THE SAME LINE AND THEY WEREN'T A CERTAIN DISTANCE APART AND ONE HYDRANT COULD BE PULLING FROM ANOTHER, WILL DECREASE THE AMOUNT OF WATER AT THAT HYDRANT. LIKE AND SINCE WE HAVE A GRID AND LOOP SYSTEM TO THE 24TH STREET FIRE, FOR EXAMPLE, WELL, THERE WERE THREE HYDRANTS WITHIN THE VICINITY BEING USED AT THE SAME TIME, BUT BECAUSE THEY WERE FAR ENOUGH APART AND PERHAPS ON DIFFERENT FEEDER LINES, THEY ALL FLOWED PHENOMENALLY. BUT IF IF SAY, THEY HAD BEEN, YOU KNOW, HALF A BLOCK OR MAYBE CLOSER AND BEEN ON THE EXACT SAME PIECE OF LINE, THEN WE COULD HAVE TAKEN FROM ONE TO THE OTHER. PULLED THE LADDER TRUCK WITH A 2000 GPM PUMP COULD PULL A LOT. MORE WITH THAT PARTICULAR FIRE. DID YOU HAVE ANY MEN OR EQUIPMENT IN THE ALLEY WORKING FROM THE BACK SIDE? OR WAS IT ALL FROM THE WE DID IT WAS IT WAS A FEW MINUTES INTO THE FIGHT BEFORE WE GOT A TRUCK TO THE, TO THE BACK, AND THEY ACTUALLY PULLED OFF OF A LINE CLOSER TO 25TH STREET HYDRANT THERE. [00:10:01] AND THEN THE OTHER TWO WERE ON 24TH STREET PROPER, BUT THEY WERE, LET'S SAY, A BLOCK OR SO APART. SO YOU DID PICK UP A TRUCK TO THE ALLEY. YOU NEED A MINIMUM OF 20FT CORRECT FOR GOOD ACCESS, 20FT OF WIDTH. YES, FOR A FIRE LANE, A FIRE ACCESS ROAD. WE ASK ALWAYS FOR A MINIMUM OF 20FT. BUT BUT ON THE ALLEYS YOU DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW WHAT THE ACTUAL WIDTH IS BECAUSE OF OBSTRUCTIONS AND ENCROACHMENTS. AND SO HOW DO YOU HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THAT? YOU HAVE TO JUST WAIT TILL YOU GET THERE AND SEE IF YOU CAN MAKE IT WORK. WELL, THAT AND I KNOW IN THE, IN SOME OF THE COMMERCIAL DISTRICT IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA THERE'S BEEN MANY DISCUSSIONS IN YEARS PAST OVER PLACEMENT OF DUMPSTERS. AND THEN IN SOME AREAS WHERE WE STILL HAVE FIRE ESCAPES, THERE'S BEEN SOME FIRE ESCAPES THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO KEEP THOSE AREAS CLEAR OR THEY HAVE TO GO AHEAD AND BUILD A PERMANENT LANDING AND WE DO A LICENSE TO USE FOR SMALL ENCROACHMENT TO WHERE WE CAN STILL GET A TRUCK THROUGH THERE, BUT WE TRY WHEN POSSIBLE, NOT TO COMMIT AN APPARATUS TO PARKING IN THE ALLEY AND FIGHTING A FIRE FROM THERE JUST BECAUSE OVERHEAD INFRASTRUCTURE COLLAPSE ZONES AND CONGESTION. YEAH. SO. WELL, YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT MULTIFAMILY. SO WHAT WOULD BE THE WHAT SIZE, HOW MANY FAMILY UNITS WOULD IT HAVE TO BE TO BE DESIGNATED WITH THEIR OWN INTERNAL WATER FOR FIRE FIGHTING? WELL, THAT'S MORE OF A FUNCTION OF JUST ACCESS PERIOD. IT'S NOT NOT NECESSARILY A FLOW. IT'S THERE'S AN EQUATION THAT GOES BY THE SQUARE FOOTAGE AND THE TYPE OF CONSTRUCTION THAT WILL TELL YOU HOW MANY GPM OR GALLONS PER MINUTE THAT WE WOULD NEED. AND THEN WHETHER OR NOT THAT INFRASTRUCTURE ALREADY EXISTS WITHIN A CERTAIN DISTANCE FROM THE BUILDING. AND THAT'S USUALLY DONE THROUGH IN CONCERT WITH PUBLIC WORKS ENGINEERING BECAUSE THEY'RE LOOKING AT THE CIVIL PLANS. AND SO IF, IF IT'S A, SAY, A SHALLOW DEVELOPMENT THAT FRONTS AN ENTIRE MAJOR THOROUGHFARE THAT ALREADY HAS A HYDRANT SYSTEM, WE MAY BE ABLE TO USE THAT HYDRANT SYSTEM. BUT IN THE CASE WHERE YOU GET OFF THE ROAD AND YOU GET DEEPER, THEN THERE'S A HYDRANT MINIMUM HYDRANT SPACING REQUIREMENT THAT GOES ALONG WITH THE GPM REQUIREMENT. SO IT'S IT'S MANY, MANY MOVING PARTS IS ALL A FUNCTION OF WHAT YOU WANT TO BUILD. BUT THAT'S ON PUBLIC STREETS. CORRECT. WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE MINIMUM PLACEMENT OF HYDRANTS, NOT IN ALLEYWAYS. EVEN ON ON DEVELOPMENTS IN ALLEYWAYS BECAUSE OF THEIR PROXIMITY BETWEEN PUBLIC STREETS AND THE HYDRANT SYSTEM WE HAVE TYPICALLY WE DON'T HAVE OR NOT THAT I KNOW OF ANY HYDRANTS IN ALLEYWAYS THAT ADEQUATE TO ADDRESS ANY ISSUES FROM THE ALLEYWAYS, TYPICALLY. IT JUST REQUIRES SOME LONGER HOSES SOMETIMES, WHICH WE'RE USED TO. AND YOU KNOW WHY WE'RE ASKING YOU ALL THESE QUESTIONS, RIGHT? DO YOU KNOW WHY WE'RE TRYING TO DEVELOP SOME? WE'RE NOT TRYING TO THROW YOU UNDER THE BUS OR ANYTHING. I JUST KIND OF WANTED TO BRING YOU UP TO SPEED. WE'VE WE'VE HAD SOME REQUESTS THAT COME BEFORE US TO TAKE LOTS AND DIVIDE THEM WHERE THEY ONLY HAVE ALLEY ACCESS. AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN WE APPROVE ANY OF THOSE, WE'RE NOT CREATING UNSAFE CONDITIONS FOR OUR COMMUNITY. SO TODAY, THAT'S WHY I THINK STAN'S ASKING YOU THE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ALLEY WIDTH. WHAT WOULD BE ADEQUATE FOR YOU TO GET YOUR FIRE EQUIPMENT DOWN SO THAT MAYBE WE CAN SET SOME STANDARDS WHEN WE DO APPROVE THESE FOR SPECIFIC ALLEYWAYS THAT DON'T CREATE UNSAFE CONDITIONS. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR EVERYTHING YOU'RE TELLING US, BECAUSE IT'S REALLY GOOD INFORMATION. AND HAS IT CHANGED MUCH? AND IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN THAT THE STANDARD NOW IS 20FT, 20FT. I THINK THAT WAS SET BY ONE OF MY, MY PREDECESSORS BECAUSE THAT'S THAT'S THE STANDARD WIDTH FOR A FIRE LANE. BUT YOU WERE SAYING WITH YOUR FIRE TRUCK, YOU NEED 26 TO 30FT FOR A LADDER ACCESS. IF WE HAVE TO DO A LADDER TRUCK. YEAH, BUT THE BARE MINIMUM FOR AN ENGINE OR PUMPER, WHICH IS THE WORKHORSE OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, THAT'S 20FT. WHAT KIND OF FIRES WOULD REQUIRE A LADDER ACCESS? THE ABOVE. TYPICALLY WHEN WE START ASKING FOR LADDER ACCESS JUST AS A MATTER OF FUNCTION, IT'S ANYTHING THAT'S OVER 30FT TALL. OKAY. IF YOU HAVE A BUILDING THAT GETS OVER 30FT AND THAT EXCEEDS THE DISTANCE OF OUR TYPICAL GROUND LADDERS THAT WE CARRY ON FIRE APPARATUS. JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY, DO DOES THE FIRE DEPARTMENT REGULARLY LIKE, DRIVE THROUGH ALLEYS LIKE EAST OF 61ST STREET, JUST TO SEE WHAT IT'S LIKE? BECAUSE I'M THINKING OF A RESTAURANT THAT I ONE OF MY FAVORITE RESTAURANTS. BUT WHEN I COME OUT OF THE ALLEY AND MY PICKUP TRUCK, SOMETIMES IT'S HARD TO GET OUT OF THERE BECAUSE OF THE DUMPSTER. YEAH. SO DUMPSTERS ARE MOVABLE TARGETS? YEAH. WE FREQUENTLY HAVE OUR PERSONNEL DO TERRITORIAL SURVEYS. [00:15:03] WE CALL THEM. THEY JUST. THEY DRIVE AROUND AND IN THE TRUCK ENGINE PLAN. YES. OKAY. AND IF THEY SEE A TIGHT SPOT YOU KNOW, THEY'LL THEY'LL TRY TO PREPLAN A WAY AROUND IT. IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT ALREADY EXISTS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T MOVE. BUT IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN MOVE, THEN THEY'LL CALL THE FIRE MARSHAL'S OFFICE, OR THEY'LL CALL PUBLIC WORKS OR WHATEVER THE APPROPRIATE AUTHORITY, AND HAVE THEM GO AND TRY TO RECTIFY THE SITUATION. I SPOKE ABOUT DUMPSTERS AND ALLEYS IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA. FOR A LONG TIME THERE WERE DUMPSTERS ON BOTH SIDES, AND A LOT OF THAT NOW IS ATTEMPTING TO PUSH THEM ALL TO ONE SIDE SO THAT THERE IS AN OBSTRUCTION. WE KNOW EXACTLY WHERE EVERYTHING IS AT, AND IT'S CONSISTENT. YES, SIR, I KNOW. AND FURTHER ON THE WEST END, LIKE EVIA, I KNOW THERE ARE ALLEYS IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. I DON'T KNOW HOW WIDE THEY ARE. THEY 20FT INTO BILL'S BACK THERE? I THINK SO, BECAUSE I KNOW THERE ARE ALLEYWAYS BEHIND SOME OF THE SOME OF THE SECTIONS THERE, BUT THEY'RE NOT THE HOUSES AREN'T BUTT UP AGAINST EACH OTHER LIKE IN THE EAST END. 24. 24TH STREET FIRE THAT SPREAD TO THE STRUCTURE THAT WAS IN THE REAR. THAT ALL THE SPREAD WAS LATERALLY TO THE NORTH AND SOUTH. THE HOMES DIRECTLY TO THE LEFT AND RIGHT OF IT. OKAY. BUT YOU BUT YOU WOULD HAVE HAD THE ABILITY TO REACH OVER THE TOP OF THAT HOUSE FIRE ON THE REAR STRUCTURE. I CAN'T SAY FOR 100 PERCENT THAT I'M CERTAIN BECAUSE I KNOW THERE WERE THERE WAS A CONCERN ON ACCESS IN THE FRONT FOR A LADDER TRUCK BECAUSE THERE ARE HIGH, HIGH VOLTAGE POWER LINES THAT RUN DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THE HOME. THERE ARE LINES IN THE ALLEY, BUT I BELIEVE THEY'RE ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE ALLEY. SO IF IT HAD BEEN NECESSARY, WE COULD HAVE MADE IT WORK BUT THEY WERE ABLE TO MAKE IT WORK FROM THE FRONT SIDE, AND THAT THE LOTS WERE SHALLOW ENOUGH THERE, WHERE THEY WERE ABLE TO GET ALL THE WATER THEY NEEDED FROM 24TH STREET PROPER. ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR? I HAVE ONE. SO CHRIS, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE LOTS LIKE THAT'S CIRCLED HERE WHERE IT IS ITS OWN LEGAL LOT AND IT ONLY TAKES ACCESS FROM THE ALLEY. ARE THERE ANY FIREFIGHTING CONCERNS? YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE HAVE LOTS OF STRUCTURES IN ALLEYS. IS THERE ANYTHING PARTICULAR ABOUT A LOT THAT HAS THESE LOT LINES FOR FIREFIGHTING RATHER THAN JUST A REGULAR OLD ALLEY HOUSE? ACCESS WOULD I WOULD SAY, WOULD BE THE MAJOR CONCERN, BUT HONESTLY, IT WOULD BE VERY LITTLE DIFFERENCE FROM IF THAT LOT WERE TO HAVE A DRIVEWAY THAT CAME TO THE STREET PROPER WOULD BE FACING THE SAME THING. IT'S JUST THESE WHEN YOU GET TO THAT AMOUNT OF COVERAGE ON A LOT THERE'S ONLY SO MUCH LAND YOU CAN BUILD ON. AND SO WE WE DO HAVE PROBLEMS WITH ACCESS, BUT WE MAKE IT WORK. SO THERE WOULDN'T BE IF THE FIRE, IF THE HYDRANT WAS, SAY, HERE, YOU'D STILL HAVE THE ABILITY TO BECAUSE YOU'RE FIREFIGHTERS [INAUDIBLE] . WE COULD COME OFF OF ONE OF THE SIDE STREETS SO YOU WOULDN'T BE USING A HYDRANT FROM THIS BLOCK FACE. YOU'D BE USING ONE FROM HERE. OOPS. YES. SORRY. OR FROM OVER HERE? YES. WE COULD LAY DOWN THE ALLEY OR AROUND THE CORNER, AND WE DO IT FREQUENTLY. IT'S NOT ALWAYS IDEAL. IT DOES BLOCK OFF A STREET WHEN WE DO THAT, BUT IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT WE WE PLAN AROUND. AND IT DEPENDS YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, THERE'S THERE'S NOT ONE SET STANDARD ACROSS TOWN. IN SOME AREAS THE WAY BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE WATER LINES ARE LAID OUT, THE TAPS ARE MADE, SOME HYDRANTS ON THE ALLEY CORNER, SOME HYDRANTS ARE ON THE CORNER PROPER, SOME ARE MID-BLOCK. IT JUST DEPENDS ON HOW IT'S LAID OUT. SO I'M GOING TO KIND OF PUT YOU ON THE SPOT. IF CAN YOU THINK OF A SPECIFIC STANDARD FOR APPROVAL YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE FOR AN ALLEY ACCESS ONLY LOT THAT WOULD MAKE YOUR JOB EASIER? THE ONE I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WE CAN'T ENFORCE. IT'S ILLEGAL TO REQUIRE SPRINKLERS IN HOMES. OH, CAN'T DO THAT ONE. NO. AS FAR AS ACCESS. NO, I MEAN. I CAN'T SAY THERE WOULD BE ANY ONE WAY. JUST BECAUSE WE'RE SO USED TO THE WAY IT IS. RIGHT, RIGHT. WELL, WE KNOW WE HAVE PREEXISTING HOMES THAT ARE HERE AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN HERE. IT'S JUST WE DON'T WANT TO CREATE PROBLEMS FOR YOU MOVING FORWARD. WE HAVE ONE RIGHT BEHIND OUR FIRE STATION. THAT'S TRUE. YOU DO HAVE ONE FIRE STATION, BUT IT'S A FUNCTION OF THE WAY THAT THE LOTS WERE LAID OUT. [00:20:04] I MEAN, IF I, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, THERE WAS A ROOMING HOUSE AND A FEW SHOTGUN HOMES THAT WERE THERE IN THE PAST. AND SO, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN DEAL WITH IT. YES, SIR. WE CAN. GALVESTON IS UNIQUE AND SO ARE OUR FIREFIGHTERS, SO WE'RE USED TO IT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELL APPRECIATED. WELL, JUST ON THE, YOU KNOW, WISH LIST KIND OF THING. SO YOU WOULD SAY FOR A MULTI-STORY MULTIFAMILY UNIT ON THE ALLEYWAY WOULD BE MORE PROBLEMATICAL BECAUSE OF THIS, ESPECIALLY IF IT WENT ZERO LOT. SO THEY'VE GOT THEY'RE RIGHT THERE ON THE LOT. THAT WOULD BE PRETTY TOUGH WORKING. I DON'T THINK BECAUSE OF BUILDING SETBACKS AND ALL OTHER THINGS. I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANYTHING LIKE THAT THERE. THEY WOULD TYPICALLY BE TURNED INSTEAD OF PARALLEL THE ALLEY. THEY WOULD BE RIGHT. SO BUT YEAH, IF THERE WERE A SITUATION WHERE YOU HAD A TALL BUILDING AT ZERO LOT LINE YOU KNOW, HIGH DENSITY POPULATION, THAT IT COULD CAUSE US SOME ISSUES. WE WOULD HAVE TO PREPLAN THAT. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, A MULTIFAMILY RESIDENCE BEING BUILT TODAY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO BE FIRE SPRINKLER AND HAVE PROPER FIRE PROTECTION AT THE FIRE RATE OF CONSTRUCTION AT THE EXTERIOR. SO THOSE CONCERNS ARE GREATLY MITIGATED BECAUSE OF THE INHERENT FIRE PROTECTION FEATURES. OKAY. HOW MANY UNITS DO YOU HAVE TO PUT IN A SPRINKLER SYSTEM? TOWNHOUSES. AND THEN AT THREE? AT THREE. SO YOU CAN DO SINGLE FAMILY. YOU CAN DO DUPLEX. ONCE IT GETS OUT OF ONE AND TWO FAMILY DWELLING OUT OF THE IRC AND INTO THE IBC, THEN IT'S CONSIDERED A COMMERCIAL RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY AND SPRINKLERS ARE REQUIRED. YOU JUST MENTIONED LIKE THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDINGS BECAUSE I KNOW THERE'S I CALL THEM THE SKINNY BUILDINGS OVER HERE OFF THE SEAWALL THAT ARE GOING UP FOR STUDENT HOUSING, I BELIEVE. THEY'RE LIKE, THEY GO STRAIGHT UP AND THEY'RE VERY CLOSE TOGETHER. SO THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD REQUIRE LIKE PROBABLY BOTH A LADDER AND YOUR REGULAR HOSES IF SOMETHING WERE TO HAPPEN THERE. WELL, THOSE BUILDINGS ARE ALSO FULLY SPRINKLERED BECAUSE THEY HAVE MORE THAN THREE UNITS. GOTCHA. OKAY. SO THE FIRE RISK AND THE INHERENT FIRE RISK IS IS VERY LOW. OKAY. I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION FOR YOU THAT IS NOT SO MUCH ABOUT THE ALLEYS, BUT SINCE I HAVE YOU SITTING HERE WHEN WE GET THESE STAFF REPORTS, A LOT OF TIMES FROM THE DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS, IT'LL SAY NO OBJECTION. I'M JUST CURIOUS. WHAT WHAT, FOR EXAMPLE, YOUR DEPARTMENT WOULD LOOK AT WHEN YOU'RE REVIEWING SOME OF THESE REQUESTS THAT DEVELOPERS OR THE PUBLIC IS MAKING AROUND THEIR PROPERTIES? BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES IT'S CONFUSING TO ME WHEN I SEE ALMOST EVERY DEPARTMENT SAYING NO OBJECTION. AND THEN WE HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT. SO WE JUST EVALUATED THEM AGAINST THE FIRE CODE. EACH ONE IS A CASE BY CASE BASIS, BUT WE GET THE STAFF REPORT AND THE INFORMATION FROM PLANNING. AND THEN WE LOOK AT THINGS LIKE ACCESS AND AVAILABILITY OF FIRE WATER. AND AND EVEN THOUGH THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY APPROVING THE BUILDING ITSELF, WE START TO THINK DOWN THE ROAD OF IF THIS BUILDING IS GOING TO REQUIRE CERTAIN FIRE PROTECTION FEATURES TO BE BUILT IN, WILL IT BE POSSIBLE ON THIS LOT AND GIVE THEM WE GIVE YOU GUYS AND THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT AS MUCH INFORMATION AS WE CAN TO MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION. BUT IF IT MEETS CODE, THEN WE CAN'T GIVE YOU AN OPINION. IT'S NO OBJECTION BECAUSE IT MEETS WITH THE LETTER OF THE LAW, WHICH IS WHAT COUNCIL HAS ENACTED. OKAY. THANK YOU. YEAH, BUT IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALWAYS AVAILABLE TO ANSWER THEM. THANK YOU. CHRIS I'VE GOT A QUESTION FOR YOU AS WELL, A COUPLE ACTUALLY. OBVIOUSLY OUR COMMISSION IS CONCERNED ABOUT PARKING ISSUES AS WELL. AND THAT'S A CONCERN THAT, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, WE COULDN'T HAVE SOMEBODY PARKING IN AN ALLEYWAY AREA WITH A VEHICLE BECAUSE THAT WOULD CLEARLY IMPEDE YOUR ABILITY TO GO DOWN THAT ALLEY AT ALL. DO YOU HAVE ANY OBJECTION WHERE I THINK YOU JUST MENTIONED A FEW MINUTES AGO, YOU KNOW, WHEN THE WHEN THE THE UNIT IS MORE PERPENDICULAR WITH THAT ALLEY, AND THEN THEY'VE GOT A SPOT FOR THE CAR TO PULL IN, YOU KNOW, HEAD IN OFF THE ALLEY. OBVIOUSLY, IF IF IT'S PARKED IN THE ALLEY, THAT'S A CONCERN. BUT IF IT'S OFF THE ALLEY, IS THAT ANY ISSUE FOR YOU? AS LONG AS IT'S WITHIN THE PROPERTY, THEIR PROPERTY LINES AND IT DOESN'T IMPEDE THE ALLEY, RIGHT? BECAUSE THE WAY LADDER ACCESS WORKS, WHEN ASKING FOR THAT, THAT 26 FOOT WIDE ROADWAY AND THE ANGLE THAT WE TAKE IT, IT ONLY HAS TO BE ON ONE FULL SIDE OF THE BUILDING UNLESS THERE IS SAY YOU HAVE A MULTI-LEVEL ROOF, THEN WE WOULD NEED ACCESS TO EACH OF THE LEVELS OF THAT ROOF THAT WE COULD REACH WITH A LADDER. BUT BUT AS LONG AS WE CAN REACH ONE FULL SIDE, EVEN WHETHER IT'S FROM THE STREET OR THE ALLEY SIDE, THEN THEN THAT WOULD COUNT. OKAY, SO SO IN ADDITION, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE A CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE A 30 FOOT [00:25:03] TALL RESIDENTIAL UNIT WOULD REQUIRE THE LADDER TRUCK. DO YOU SEE MANY SINGLE FAMILY HOMES THAT GET ABOVE THAT THAT AREN'T SPRINKLED? TYPICALLY NO. OKAY. AND THEN MY LAST QUESTION IS, WHAT ARE THE SORT OF THE BULK SIZES OF YOUR, OF YOUR NON LADDER TRUCKS. I MEAN WHAT YOU KNOW OUTSIDE EDGE TO OUTSIDE EDGE. I WAS GOING TO I HAVE THOSE APPARATUS DIMENSIONS FOR OUR TYPICAL. I CAN SEND THEM TO YOU. WE GIVE THEM TO DEVELOPERS SO THAT THEY CAN DEVELOP TURNING ANGLES. AND THE REASON I ASK THAT IS BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, IF THERE ARE CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH A TRUCK COULD GO DOWN, THAT'S ONE THING. OBVIOUSLY A LADDER TRUCK PROBABLY WON'T GO DOWN AT ALL. I WOULDN'T IMAGINE THERE CERTAINLY WOULDN'T SET UP IN AN ALLEY, BECAUSE OUR ALLEYWAYS ARE 20 FOOT MAXIMUM ISLAND WIDE, AND THERE ARE NO MORE THAT ARE THAT ARE GREATER THAN THAT. SO WE HAVE A BUILT IN, YOU KNOW SITUATION WITH HOW WIDE THEY ARE AS A MAXIMUM. AND I KNOW YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE OF THAT. BUT, YOU KNOW, IF IF YOUR LADDER TRUCK COULDN'T, YOU KNOW, MAKE IT DOWN THERE, COULD YOUR PUMPER TRUCKS MAKE IT DOWN IF YOU HAVE SOME ENCROACHMENTS ALONG THE SIDE. AND WHAT YOU KNOW, KIND OF WHAT WHAT LEVEL OF YOU SAID KIND OF WE MAKE IT WORK. SO JUST KIND OF YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT. I CAN SEND YOU THOSE. BUT ONE THING TO REMEMBER IS THAT THAT 20 FOOT EVERYTHING IN THE FIRE SERVICE GIVES US A LITTLE WIGGLE ROOM. YEAH, 20 FOOT GIVES US ENOUGH ROOM. THE 20 FOOT STANDARD WHEN IT WAS DEVELOPED, THE THEORY BEHIND IT WAS YOU COULD PLACE A PUMPER ALONG THAT ROADWAY, MAYBE GET A SUPPLY LINE TO IT, AND STILL HAVE ROOM FOR ANOTHER APPARATUS TO PASS IT. THAT'S GETTING HARDER TO DO THESE DAYS BECAUSE APPARATUS ARE GETTING LARGER AND LARGER. AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'LL ALSO SEE IF, IF THAT 20 FOOT ROADWAY HAS A HYDRANT ON IT IN THE IN THE IMMEDIATE AREA AROUND THAT HYDRANT, IT KICKS OUT TO 26FT TO ALLOW FOR THE HOSE THAT WOULD NEED TO BE ATTACHED TO IT AND STILL ALLOW FOR SOMEONE TO PASS. SO SOME OF IT IS A FUNCTION OF SIZE, THE REST OF IT IS A FUNCTION OF HOW WE PLACE OUR APPARATUS IN THE SCENE BEFORE WE PARK THEM. BUT I CAN CERTAINLY GET YOU THOSE DIMENSIONS THAT YOU COULD DISSEMINATE. CONVEY ON. YEAH, SURE. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AWESOME. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? NO. OKAY. THANK YOU SO MUCH. WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. THANK YOU CHRIS. THANKS, CHRIS. WE APPRECIATE IT. AND WE'VE GOT RESPONSES FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND FROM INFRASTRUCTURE AND ENGINEERING. SO HE SUBMITTED HIS RESPONSES TO THE QUESTIONS. AND THEN HE ALSO DID HIS OWN SORT OF POLICY STATEMENT AT THE END, BECAUSE HE ALSO SHARES YOUR SAME CONCERNS ABOUT ALLEY ACCESS LOTS, ESPECIALLY ABOUT ADDRESSING, AND THE 911 SYSTEM. YEAH, YEAH. DO WE WANT TO HAVE SOMEONE ELSE? WHO ELSE IS HERE THAT HAS RESPONDED POLICE ? I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYBODY ELSE. NO. THAT'S IT. Y'ALL ARE JUST ALL HERE TO WATCH HOW FUN THIS IS. THEY'RE SO ENTERTAINING, SO ENTERTAINING. WELL, I LIKE TO KIND OF READ IN THE ADDITIONAL NOTES FROM THE DIRECTOR OF INFRASTRUCTURE AND ENGINEERING. IS THAT OKAY, THAT SUMMARY THAT THAT LAST THAT HE SAID. ADDITIONAL NOTES REGARDING ALLEYWAY ACCESS LOTS AND OUR LOT SUBDIVISIONS FOR STRUCTURE PLACED IN THE REAR. THE LOTS ARE BEING SUBDIVIDED AND SUBDIVIDED TO PLACE THE STRUCTURE ON THE REAR OF THE LOT THAT HAS NO PRIMARY STREET ACCESS, A NUMBER OF CONCERNS AND ISSUES ARISES ON THE ENGINEERING AND PUBLIC WORK SIDE OF THE HOUSE. A, WHEN FRONT LOTS ARE CUT OFF ENTIRELY FROM THE ALLEY WHICH CONTAINS THE CITY WATER AND SEWER MAINS, WHICH ARE SERVICE LINES FOR THE STRUCTURE LOCATED ON THE FRONT PARCEL WHICH NEED TO BE CONNECTED. A DEDICATED UTILITY EASEMENT MUST BE DEDICATED TO ALLOW THE FRONT PROPERTY TO HAVE ACCESS TO UTILITIES LOCATED IN THE ALLEYWAY. SO THAT'S TRUE. I FORGOT ABOUT THAT, A LOT OF THE UTILITIES ARE IN THE ALLEYWAY AND WHEN YOU WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT IT FROM THE ALLEYWAY PERSPECTIVE AND NOT REALLY THE FRONT LOT PERSPECTIVE AS WELL. RIGHT. YEAH. AND THAT'S WHAT ROB AND HIS TEAM LOOK AT WHEN THEY'RE REVIEWING PLATS. AND SO THEY WILL. AND YOU SEE THAT ON YOUR PLATS REQUIRE THAT THERE BE UTILITY EASEMENTS, THAT THEY HAVE ACCESS TO THE FRONT LOT AS WELL. THE FRONT LOT CONTINUES TO HAVE ACCESS TO WHATEVER'S IN THE ALLEY, AND THE ALLEY LOT CONTINUES TO HAVE ACCESS TO WHATEVER'S IN THE FRONT. AND THEN HE SAYS, B, WHEN A BACK LOT IS CUT, CUT OFF ENTIRELY FROM THE PRIMARY STREET. THIS MAKES ACCESSING AND ADDRESSING ANY STRUCTURES ON THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY VERY DIFFICULT. A DEDICATED EGRESS AND INGRESS ACCESS EASEMENT MUST BE DEDICATED FOR EMERGENCY SERVICES, US POSTAL SERVICES, AND GENERAL ACCESS. ANOTHER ISSUE FOR BACK LOT DEVELOPMENTS IS THAT THE LOT BECOMES ISOLATED FROM THE PRIMARY STREET, COMPLICATING DRAINAGE ISSUES ON THE BLOCK WHEN IT HAS HISTORICALLY BEEN SET TO DRAIN TO THE PRIMARY STREET. [00:30:02] IN THESE SITUATIONS, THE DEDICATION OF DRAINAGE EASEMENTS ACROSS THE FRONT LOT MUST OCCUR TO ALLOW THE BACK LOT TO DRAIN TOWARDS THE PRIMARY STREET. SO THAT'S SOMETHING ELSE THAT WE, YOU KNOW, AS WE'RE TRYING TO DEVELOP THESE STANDARDS TO APPROVE THESE, THESE LOTS THAT WILL ONLY HAVE ALLEY ACCESS, THAT THESE BE INCORPORATED. OKAY. ANYBODY ELSE WANT TO ADDRESS THESE? ALONG ALONG THOSE DRAINAGE LINES. SO WE'VE APPROVED A COUPLE LATELY. WE APPROVED ONE SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE WE APPROVED THE ONE. BUT THEY HAD A UTILITY EASEMENT ON THE SIDE ON THE SIDE FROM THE PRIMARY STREET TO THAT BACK LOT. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE DRAINAGE? WAS THERE A DRAINAGE PLAN SUBMITTED? I THINK THERE WAS. I DON'T RECALL I DON'T REMEMBER OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. OKAY. YOU KNOW, ROB IS HAPPY TO COME TO A LATER MEETING TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS ABOUT THE THINGS THAT ARE IN HIS WHEELHOUSE. SO IF YOU HAVE STUFF THAT'S SPECIFIC FOR ROB, HE'S HAPPY TO COME AT A LATER MEETING. MAYBE WE COULD REQUEST HIM TO COME. BECAUSE WE'RE NOT THE EXPERT. SO IT'D BE REALLY NICE IF THESE GUYS WOULD TELL US THIS IS WHAT WE NEED. AND AND SO THAT WE'RE NOT TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, PICK IT LITTLE BY LITTLE AND NOT PUT IT. AND WE MIGHT MISS SOMETHING. SO THAT'S IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE PUT IT TOGETHER SO THAT WHEN WE MAKE THESE DECISIONS, LIKE I SAID, MY ONLY CONCERN BECAUSE WE ALL NEED MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING ON THE ISLAND. I MEAN, THAT'S THAT'S A SLAM DUNK. FINDING A WAY TO DO IT SAFELY IS WHAT I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE MYSELF. SO IF YOU ALL WANT TO KEEP GOING OVER THOSE ANSWERS, I KNOW YOU HAVEN'T HAD A LOT OF TIME TO STUDY THEM, AND THEY REALLY TOOK TIME AND ANSWERED THEM IN DEPTH. THEY DID. SO IF YOU WANT TO KEEP LOOKING AT THAT, WE CAN INVITE ROB OR ANYBODY ELSE THAT YOU WANT TO HEAR FROM TO COME AND CONTINUE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION. ON YOUR ON YOUR NOTES HERE CATHERINE, YOU SAID THERE ARE APPROXIMATELY 174 LOTS. HOW MANY OF THOSE ARE DEAD END, DO YOU KNOW? I DON'T KNOW, SO HERE'S A MAP THAT SHOWS THE ALLEY ACCESS LOT. SO I DID A STUDY IN OUR GIS OF WHERE THE ALLEY ACCESS LOTS ARE. AND SO THERE ARE THESE THEY'RE OUTLINED IN RED, SO THEY CAN KIND OF BE HARD TO SEE SOMETIMES BECAUSE THERE CAN BE VERY SMALL. WELL, I THOUGHT THERE WOULD BE MORE VACANT LOTS. THEY ARE A MIX. SO THERE ARE ABOUT 170 ALLEY ACCESS LOTS. THEY'RE LOCATED BETWEEN 6TH AND 61ST STREET. OUTSIDE OF THAT GEOGRAPHIC AREA YOU KNOW, ALLEYS ARE VERY RARE. SO THERE ARE ALLEYS IN EVIA AND THERE ARE SOME SMALLER STREETS IN SOME OF THE OTHER SUBDIVISIONS, LIKE BEACH TOWN AND BEACHSIDE VILLAGE THAT FUNCTION AS ALLEYS. BUT REALLY, THIS IS WHERE OUR ALLEYS ARE LOCATED. THERE ARE SOME CONCENTRATIONS, YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE ARE SOME AREAS HERE. THIS IS SOUTH OF BROADWAY IN THE 30S NORTH OF BROADWAY IN THE 40S. SO THAT'S A HISTORICAL DISTRICT, RIGHT? 25TH STREET? THERE WERE ALL THOSE CONCENTRATION OF RED DOTS THE SILK STOCKING HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND THAT'S THE FURTHEST WESTERN EXTENT OF OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT. SO ALL OF THIS, ALL OF THESE OUT HERE ARE IN THE OLDER PARTS OF TOWN. YES, BUT THEY'RE NOT IN A DESIGNATED HISTORIC DISTRICT. BECAUSE I KNOW THERE'S ONE AROUND THE BLOCK FOR ME. BUT JUST JUST A CURIOUS NOTE THERE, BECAUSE THERE ARE DEAD END ALLEYS IN GALVESTON. I'VE FORGOTTEN ABOUT THOSE. I'M JUST MAKING THAT NOTE. I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT. THEY HAD TO BE TWO WAY ACCESS. SO WHEN I WAS READING THE NOTES HERE. YEAH , I THOUGHT IT WAS FUNNY. ONE OF ONE OF THE QUESTIONS IS HOW WIDE SHOULD AN ALLEY BE TO SAFELY ACCOMMODATE TWO WAY TRAFFIC AND STILL MAINTAIN THE UTILITY EASEMENTS? AND HE QUOTED 6.303 OF THE STREET DESIGN LAYOUT, WHICH SAYS NO NEW BUSINESS OR DWELLING SHALL FACE OR HAVE ITS MAIN ENTRANCE. THE AVERAGE LOT SIZE IS 1859FT². SO THEY ARE SMALL. KEEP IN MIND THAT OUR MINIMUM LOT SIZE IN THIS AREA IS GENERALLY 2500FT². SO A NEW ALLEY ACCESS LOT WOULD HAVE TO EITHER MEET THAT LOT SIZE OR GAIN A VARIANCE FROM THE ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. BUT THAT IS A POSSIBILITY. AND THOSE HAVE BEEN APPROVED IN THE PAST. OF THE LOTS OF THE 170, 70 ARE VACANT. SO THERE'S I WAS SURPRISED BY THAT NUMBER. I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN LOWER. [INAUDIBLE] SO ONLY 100 ACTUALLY HAVE STRUCTURES ON THEM? YEAH, ONLY 100 HAVE STRUCTURES ON THEM. SO IT'S REALLY LIMITED WAY. A LOT SMALLER THAN WHAT WE THOUGHT. IT'S A REALLY SMALL UNIVERSE. SO IF YOU CONSIDER THAT GALVESTON HAS, I DON'T KNOW, 40,000 LOTS. [00:35:02] WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 170. THAT'S A MINUSCULE PERCENTAGE. AND THEN OUT OF THAT 170, ONLY 100 ARE IMPROVED. BUT THERE'S A POSSIBILITY FOR 70. THERE'S NOTHING THAT THE CITY CAN'T STOP. YEAH. CONSTRUCTION ON THE 70 THAT ARE ALREADY CONSTRUCTED ON. I DID SOME OTHER LOOKING INTO NUMBERS ABOUT OWNERSHIP OF THEM. THEY ABOUT 20% ARE HOMESTEADED. SO THOSE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING THERE AND OWN IT. PROBABLY THE OTHERS ARE RENTALS. THEY'RE OWNED BY ABOUT 61% BY GALVESTONIANS. AND I WAS GOING TO LOOK AND SEE HOW THAT RELATES TO THE GENERAL AREA. BUT I DIDN'T MY GIS DID NOT AGREE WITH THAT. IT DIDN'T. IT WAS TAKING UP TOO MUCH TIME THINKING ON IT. BUT I THOUGHT THOSE WERE INTERESTING NUMBERS. VERY INTERESTING. SO WE THERE HAD BEEN A QUESTION ABOUT WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS. SO SOME BENEFITS ARE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR AFFORDABLE HOME OWNERSHIP. SMALLER LOTS ARE MORE AFFORDABLE. AND THEN ANOTHER THING THAT WE'VE HEARD IS THAT THE PROCEEDS FROM THE SELLING OF ONE LOT ALLOWS THE CONTINUED OWNERSHIP OF THE OTHER LOT, THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE A LOT YOU SUBDIVIDE INTO YOU SELL ONE HALF OF IT, YOU SELL YOUR BACK HOUSE, AND THAT ALLOWS YOU THE PROCEEDS OF THAT ALLOW YOU TO KEEP LIVING IN YOUR HOUSE. SO IT'S AFFORDABLE HOME OWNERSHIP FOR THE NEW PERSON WHO'S BUYING THE LOT AND THEN ALSO THE PERSON WHO'S SUBDIVIDING AND HAS THAT FINANCIAL BENEFIT OF HAVING SOLD THEIR LOT. SO THERE'S THERE'S LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT HOUSE WE LOOKED AT OR THE ONE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHERE THEY HAD TO DO THE RIGHT OF WAY, BUT THEY ALREADY HAD AN EXISTING STRUCTURE THERE, IF I RECALL, THAT THEY WERE GOING TO REMODEL INTO A FAMILY UNIT. RIGHT. SO HOW MANY, I MEAN, SO THERE'S SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE MAYBE TRYING TO DO. AND THAT KIND OF MAKES ME THINK ABOUT THIS THE ACCESS QUESTIONS RIGHT AWAY QUESTIONS. THE MAIL I'M NOT REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE U.S. MAIL AS FAR AS I THINK THE U.S. MAIL IS TYPICALLY I'VE KNOWN PEOPLE LIVE ON ALLEY LOTS, AND THEY GET THEIR MAIL. SO I THINK I THINK THEY HAVE A WAY TO TO TO FIGURE IT OUT. YOU KNOW, JUST LIKE FIRE DEPARTMENT GUYS, THEY HAVE A WAY TO FIGURE IT OUT, I GUESS. BUT IF SOMEBODY DECIDES, OKAY, I'M GOING TO SUBDIVIDE MY LOT AND TAKE THAT HOUSE, REMODEL IT OR THAT GARAGE AND MAKE IT A FULL SIZE HOUSE, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT RIGHT OF WAY EXISTS PRIOR TO THEM DOING THAT, RIGHT. THAT RIGHT OF WAY FOR UTILITIES, EASEMENTS, EASEMENTS, RIGHT OF WAY IS LIKE A STREET. SO YEAH. I'M SORRY. YES. SO WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE EASEMENTS WILL STILL BE CONSIDERED IN THAT BEFORE THEY, THEY GO DOWN THAT PATH. IS THE WAY THAT OUR WORDING IN THE LDR NOW REFLECTING THAT THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE THAT CONSIDERATION. SURE. YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. AND SO MOST OF THE SURVEYORS KNOW TO LOOK FOR THAT INFORMATION. AND THEN THAT'S WHAT ROB AND HIS TEAM LOOK AT WHEN THEY'RE REVIEWING PLANS. OKAY. REMIND ME AGAIN WHAT IS THE SETBACK FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION ON AN ALLEY? TO THE ALLEY ITSELF IS TYPICALLY ZERO, ZERO. OKAY. I THINK THAT'S WHERE ONE OF THE BIG PROBLEMS COMES YEAH. AND, YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE TO PASS OUT, IF I CAN, SOME IDEAS THAT I HAVE ON SOME CHANGES THAT COULD BE MADE TO THE LDR. AND ALSO IT MAY REQUIRE A CITY ORDINANCE IN SOME CASES, BUT I'LL JUST GO THROUGH THESE. THE FIRST ONE, IS THERE ANY MORE? OH YES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THE FIRST ONE HAS TO DO WITH THE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS APPLICANTS SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO INCLUDE PHOTOS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THESE THINGS COME TO US AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. JUST LIKE YOU DO WITH BEACHFRONT CONSTRUCTION YOU KNOW, WE GET PICTURES AND SO WE CAN SEE WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE AREA. SO THAT'D BE VERY HELPFUL TO BE ABLE TO LOOK BOTH DIRECTIONS ON THE ALLEY AND ALSO WHAT'S DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM THE PROPERTY AND THEN BACK LOOKING AT THE PROPERTY. I THINK THAT SHOULD BE PART OF THEIR SUBMITTAL. A SURVEY YOU KNOW, THAT MAY SEEM A LITTLE HARSH TO REQUIRE A SURVEY OF THE ALLEY, BUT AS WE SAW IN OUR CASE AT OUR LAST MEETING, WE HAD AN ENCROACHMENT THAT WAS 2.2FT INTO THE ALLEY, WHICH MEANS YOU'RE NOW DOWN TO 17.8FT. AND WHO KNOWS WHERE THE UTILITY POLE IS LOCATED? SO MAYBE IT'S, YOU KNOW, 15FT. AND, YOU KNOW, AS WE WERE TALKING, YOU KNOW, WITH THE FIRE CAPTAIN THAT [00:40:10] HE DOESN'T ALWAYS KNOW WHEN HE'S GOING TO AN EMERGENCY SITUATION AND HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S DEALING WITH. WELL, IF WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO APPROVE THESE THE SUBDIVISION OF THESE LOTS, WE SHOULD HAVE THAT INFORMATION TO KNOW IF THAT'S A SAFE AREA WHERE YOU CAN DO THAT, OR IS IT ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE THE APPLICANT MAY HAVE TO LOOK AT RELOCATING UTILITY POLES OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT. NUMBER THREE IS TO REQUIRE TWO PARKING SPACES, BECAUSE ONE PARKING SPACE IS FOR THE OWNER TO KEEP HIS CAR OUT OF THE ALLEY. BUT SURELY THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE GUESSED AT SOME POINT, HOW MANY HOW COULD ANYBODY COME TO THEIR HOUSE UNLESS THEY PARKED DOWN THE STREET AND THEN WALK DOWN THE ALLEY, WHICH IS NOT NECESSARILY A GOOD IDEA IN ALL SITUATIONS. SO I THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE TWO PARKING SPACES ON SITE TO REDUCE THE POSSIBILITY OF A BLOCKAGE. AND THEN THE FOURTH ONE IS A MINIMUM SETBACK OF 10 FEET FROM THE OUTLET SHOULD BE REQUIRED. I MEAN, IF THIS IS A TREND THAT'S GOING TO CONTINUE. WE CAN HELP THE SITUATION BY OPENING UP AND HAVING MORE SPACE AVAILABLE. YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THE EXISTING PROPERTIES, BUT IF THE NEW ONES WOULD GO BACK 10 FEET AND IF THEY'RE DIVIDING A LOT, YOU KNOW, THEY JUST HAVE TO MOVE THEIR REAR LINE. YOU KNOW, IF THEY HAVE A PLAN TO PUT A CERTAIN SIZE STRUCTURE ON THE THE ALLEY LOT, THEY NEED TO MOVE THE REAR LINE AROUND TO MAKE IT WORK. NUMBER FIVE IS THERE SHOULD BE A 15 MILE AN HOUR SPEED LIMIT. AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO TAKE AN ORDINANCE TO DO IT IF IT'S NOT POSTED IN THE STATE OF TEXAS, IT'S 30 MILES AN HOUR. AND IF YOU GO 30 MILES AN HOUR DOWN ANY OF THE ALLEYS THAT I'VE SEEN YOU WON'T BE IN TROUBLE FOR A NUMBER OF STANDPOINTS. SO THEY CITY COUNCIL COULD DESIGNATE 15 MILE AN HOUR SPEED LIMIT IF THEY HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE THAT. THAT MAY BE. YEAH, I THINK THAT ROB RESPONDED SOMETHING ABOUT I THOUGHT I SAW SOMETHING ABOUT THAT. YEAH. AND I THINK 15 IS TOO FAST. OKAY. T HE POSTED SPEED LIMIT BY TEXAS LAW IS 30 MILES AN HOUR. AND YEAH I HAD SUGGESTED THAT THAT WE IDENTIFY WITH THE PAVING WIDTH IS AND THE ALLEY AS WELL. SO WE KNOW WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH BECAUSE ACCORDING TO SECTION 6 OF THE LDR, IT REQUIRES 20, 20FT OF PAVING, BUT WE KNOW WE DON'T HAVE THAT IN SOME CASES. I DON'T THINK WE EVEN HAVE HALF THAT AMOUNT. AND THEN THE NO PARKING, I THINK WOULD BE REINFORCED. I DON'T KNOW HOW OFTEN THAT HAPPENS IF THERE'S A VEHICLE PARKED IN AN ALLEY, BUT CONSTANTLY. YEAH, YEAH. BEHIND MY HOUSE, THERE'S ALWAYS ONE. REALLY? WELL, IT SHOULD BE ENFORCED. THERE SHOULD BE SIGNS IF THE TOW. YEAH. I THINK THESE ARE GREAT. AND THEY'RE JUST RIGHT ON TARGET WITH WHAT STAFF HAS. SO HERE ARE THE ITEMS THAT Y'ALL TALKED ABOUT AT YOUR LAST MEETING ABOUT BEING YOUR BIG CONCERNS. SO THERE'S THE CODE CONFLICT THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED, AND WE KNOW WE NEED TO RESOLVE THAT, SO WE'LL RESOLVE IT. GEOGRAPHIC AREAS WHERE IT MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE TO DO ALLEY ACCESS LOTS FROM OUR STUDY, WE KNOW THAT THEY REALLY ONLY HAPPEN EAST OF 61ST STREET. SO WE COULD RESTRICT IT TO THAT ZONE. UTILITY ACCESS AND EASEMENTS TO ENSURE THE ACCESS. I THINK JOHN'S SUGGESTIONS ABOUT THE PHOTOGRAPHS ARE REALLY USEFUL FOR THINGS LIKE VEHICULAR ACCESS AND FOR THE FIREFIGHTING. PARKING REQUIREMENT. I ONLY HAD THE ONE PARKING SPACE, SO WE MIGHT NEED TO COME TOGETHER ON THAT. AND THEN ALSO SETBACKS FROM THE ALLEY. I THINK 10 FEET IS MAYBE A LITTLE TOO MUCH. BUT WE COULD TALK ABOUT A SETBACK MAYBE 3FT OR 5FT. AND THEN ENCROACHMENTS IN THE ALLEY IS ANOTHER THING WE NEED TO ADDRESS. AND THEN ALLEY TYPES, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT'S NOT ALLOWED ON A DEAD END ALLEY AND THAT THERE HAS TO BE A WIDTH OF 20FT AND REQUIRE PAVING. THERE ARE UNPAVED ALLEYS. SO SOMEBODY WANTS TO DO A NEW ALLEY ACCESS LOT PERHAPS THEY HAVE TO PAY THE ALLEY. THE REASON I HAD SUGGESTED TEN WAS BECAUSE A VEHICLE COULD THEN PARALLEL PARK AGAINST THE PROPERTY AND BE OUT OF THE RIGHT OF WAY, BUT THAT'S A GOOD POINT. THESE ARE ALL GOOD POINTS. THE MINIMUM OF TWO PARKING SPACES, THOUGH, ON THE LOT WITH A LOT OF THESE THAT THAT MIGHT BE A LITTLE PROBLEMATICAL, I THINK, BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TRYING TO MAXIMIZE YOUR RESIDENTIAL AREA THEY MAY NOT WANT TO PUT THE ADDITIONAL PARKING SPACE IN THERE THAT MAY [00:45:09] SCREW, SCREW UP THEIR PLANS ON HOW THEY WOULD DO IT. SO IF YOU HAD THE 10 FEET, THEN YOU PROBABLY WOULDN'T NEED THAT. YOU WOULDN'T NEED IT IF YOU HAD THE 10 FOOT SETBACK. CORRECT. 10 FOOT SETBACK MAKES A LOT OF SENSE TO ME. THE THE 15 MILE AN HOUR SPEED LIMIT IS KIND OF ADDRESSED. HE SAYS IN HERE THAT IT WILL BE, SINCE IT HAS A COMBINATION PEDESTRIAN AREA I JUST FOUND THAT. YEAH. I THINK HE SAYS THAT THE DESIGN SPEED SHOULD NOT EXCEED 15MPH, SO THEY SHOULD BE DESIGNED FOR 15MPH. BUT I DON'T KNOW IF. DOES THAT MEAN THEY'RE POSTED FOR 15? SO THAT'D BE A GOOD QUESTION. ANY I CAN'T THINK OF ANY POSTED SPEED LIMIT ON ANY ALLEYWAY IN GALVESTON I'VE EVER SEEN ONE. SO THAT THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT THAT COULD BE REALLY BE LOOKED INTO PRETTY EASILY. AND THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CIRCLE BACK ON THE PARKING LOT IF THERE'S A SETBACK. I THINK THESE ARE GOOD PROPOSALS YOU KNOW. I DON'T REALLY WANT TO IMPEDE THE PERSON FROM FROM TRYING TO DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WITH THEIR AREA. AND I THINK THIS KIND OF WE WANT TO GIVE THEM LEEWAY ENOUGH WHERE THEY CAN MASSAGE IT TO WHERE YOU'RE SATISFYING THE GOALS OF THE CITY REGULATIONS AND, AND WHAT THEIR DESIRES ARE, SO. I THINK WE GOT SOME GOOD INFORMATION FROM THE FIRE MARSHAL, ESPECIALLY ABOUT THE HEIGHT OF BUILDINGS REQUIRING A LADDER TRUCK. AND SO MAYBE WE ADD INTO THIS LIST 30 FOOT HEIGHT MAXIMUM. WHAT ABOUT IN THE LOWER FLOOD ZONES? YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE HOUSES THAT ARE BEING REBUILT THAT WERE DESTROYED WERE REQUIRED TO BE ELEVATED TO A CERTAIN. SO I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WORKS WITH WITH THE FEMA REQUIREMENTS. IF WE SAY, YOU KNOW, IF YOU BUILD THIS HOUSE, YOU CAN'T BUILD IT OVER A CERTAIN WHEN FEMA MAY TELL THEM YOU HAVE TO BUILD THAT TO GET FLOOD INSURANCE. SO SURE, BUT THEY'LL NOT GET TO 30FT. SO A STANDARD HEIGHT WOULD BE 12FT FROM SEA LEVEL. AND THEN WE HAVE A FREEBOARD REQUIREMENT OF ANOTHER FOOT AND A HALF ON TOP OF THAT. SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT 13FT, BUT THAT'S FROM SEA LEVEL. SO YOU SUBTRACT THE LAND. YEAH. AND SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT SIX FEET. EIGHT FEET. OKAY. AND PEOPLE TYPICALLY IF THEY'RE BUILDING SOMETHING IN AN ALLEY WANT TO GO UP TO PARK UNDERNEATH, I MEAN THAT'S WHAT WE SEE THE MOST OF IS JUST LIKE A TYPICAL GARAGE APARTMENT THAT'S A FULL GARAGE AND THEN AN APARTMENT ON TOP OF IT. SO THAT WOULD ALLEVIATE HAVING THE PARKING SPACES. I DID LOOK AND SEE WHAT WE'VE WHAT WE'VE PERMITTED AND WHAT THE HEIGHTS WOULD A TYPICAL HEIGHT IS ON THAT, JUST THAT STANDARD KIND OF GARAGE APARTMENT. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAD TALKED ABOUT IS TURNING RADIUS, YOU KNOW, TO TURN INTO THESE PROPERTIES AND I DID ASK THAT QUESTION. AND HE SAID, TO ACCOMMODATE ALL CLASSES OF PASSENGER VEHICLES, YOU WOULD NEED TO HAVE A PAVEMENT WIDTH ON THE ORDER OF A LOCAL STREET, TYPICALLY 24FT, EXCLUDING CURBS AND GUTTERS. SO, YOU KNOW, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT 20FT BEING FINE, MAYBE 10 FOOT SETBACK, I DON'T KNOW, BUT THAT KIND OF NEEDS TO BE THROWN IN THE MIX TOO THIS ADDITIONALLY, PAVEMENT WIDTH WOULD LEAD TO ADDITIONAL IMPERVIOUS SURFACING AND RESULT IN INCREASED RUNOFF VOLUMES. SO YEAH, WE DO NEED ROBERT TO COME TALK TO US. SO HE CAN ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS FOR US, BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF VARIABLES IN THIS MIX, AND WE WANT TO GET IT RIGHT SO THAT WE DON'T CAUSE ANY PROBLEMS FOR ANYBODY, YOU KNOW, GOING FORWARD. DRAINAGE AND FLOODING IN THOSE AREAS. CAN YOU THROW THE MAP BACK ON? OKAY. SO, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD SOME REMODEL OR REBUILDING DONE. WHAT WAS IT ON 53RD? YOU KNOW, THAT WAS BASICALLY CONTENDING WITH THE WATER ISSUES, THE FLOODING ISSUES I CAN'T RECALL. DO WE HAVE A FLOODING ISSUE OCCURRING IN SOME OF THOSE IN SOME OF THESE AREAS OF WEST OF 6TH STREET WITH HEAVY RAINS? OH, SURE. OH, YEAH. OKAY. STREET FLOODING EVERYWHERE. YEAH. IT'S REALLY BAD AT 39TH AND Q THAT AREA AROUND THE COLLEGE. IT GETS YOU CAN'T EVEN. I MEAN, IT'S FOUR FEET DEEP THERE. IT USED TO FLOOD ALL THE TIME. OH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S RIGHT. I REMEMBER SEEING GUYS OUT THERE WITH PULLING, PULLING OTHER PEOPLE ON PADDLE BOARDS AND EVERYTHING. AND WE HAVE AN ACTUAL RIVER THAT RUNS DOWN OURS IN A HEAVY RAIN. SO, YEAH, THERE'S SOME AREAS THAT ARE. SO CATHERINE, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ON THE PROPOSALS THAT COMMISSIONER LIGHTFOOT PUT IN HERE ARE THESE WHICH ONES ARE JUST ADMINISTRATIVE AND WHICH ONE WOULD REQUIRE CHANGES IN THE LDRS. O NE WOULD BE JUST AN APPLICATION REQUIREMENT. SO THAT WOULD BE ADMINISTRATIVE ALSO WITH TWO, OKAY. [00:50:04] AND THEN I WOULD SAY THE REST WOULD BE EITHER A CODE REQUIREMENT FROM US OR A MUNICIPAL CODE. WHICH WOULD REQUIRE COUNCIL? YEAH. OKAY. NO MATTER WHAT WE DO REQUIRE COUNCIL. OKAY. CAN YOU HEAR THAT? YEAH. YEAH. WHAT IS THE SETBACK THE BACK ON THESE. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY SPECIALTY. I MEAN, MOST OF THE TIME IT'S 20 FOOT. BUT WHAT IS THE THE BACK EASEMENT ON THESE? TYPICAL ALLEY IS 20FT. AND THEN THE ZONING REQUIREMENTS WILL ALLOW YOU TO BUILD RIGHT UP TO THE PROPERTY LINE. RIGHT. BUT THE BACK WOULD BE 20FT. NO. NO SETBACK. NO. NO SETBACK. ZERO. NO I UNDERSTAND. I'M TALKING ABOUT ON THE YEAH STRUCTURE. ALSO ZERO. SO MOST OF THE PROPERTIES WITHIN THIS AREA ARE ZONED EITHER UN OR R-1 MODIFIED, AND THOSE DON'T CARRY ANY ZONING SETBACKS. THERE ARE REQUIREMENTS IN THE BUILDING CODE THAT FIRE SEPARATION. SO FIRE SEPARATION IT GETS STRICTER THE CLOSER YOU ARE TO A PROPERTY LINE. FOLKS LIKE TO STAY OFF OF THE PROPERTY LINE SO THEY CAN AVOID FIRE PROTECTION. AND THAT'S GENERALLY 5 FEET. TO THE LOT LINE TO THE LOT LINE BETWEEN THEM. RIGHT. IS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN? NO. BETWEEN THE STRUCTURE TO THE LOT LINE. YEAH. AND OF COURSE, THAT CAN BE ENCROACHED OR YOU CAN BUILD LITERALLY UP TO THE ZERO LOT LINE IF YOU FIRE RIGHT THE WALL, RIGHT, IN THE CONSTRUCTION. BUT YOU COULD TECHNICALLY HAVE UP TO 10 FEET BETWEEN HOUSES. BUT YOU CAN'T BUILD OVER AN EASEMENT. SO IF THERE'S A DRAINAGE AND UTILITY EASEMENT ON EACH SIDE, WHICH GENERALLY IS 5 FOOT, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, RIGHT? YES. SO YOU'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, BY STANDARD, WE'RE AT 50 BY 100 FOOT LOTS, AND THAT'S WHERE WE GET OUR 2500 IF WE SPLIT THEM IN TWO. SO WE'RE AT THE 2500. AND THE MORE WE PIECE THAT OUT WITH, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY LOSING 10 FOOT BETWEEN THE TWO SIDE EASEMENTS, WE'RE DOWN TO 40 BY 50. AND THEN THE 5 BY 50 IN THE BACK WOULD BE WOULD BE 1750 AS FAR AS THE FOOTPRINT GOES. AND THEN ANYTHING THAT YOU REQUIRE FOR THEM TO SET BACK OFF OF THE ALLEY DECREASES THAT 1750 AS WELL. SO, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANT TO TAKE IT TO A POINT TO WHERE THERE'S NO ROOM TO BUILD A HOUSE, NOTHING LEFT, OR, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE ORDINANCE THEM OUT OF ANYTHING. THAT'S NOT. YEAH, THAT'S NOT THE GOAL EITHER. AND SO I MEAN, ALTHOUGH THESE ARE THESE ARE GREAT THINGS. I MEAN, THESE ARE THESE ARE GREAT CONSIDERATIONS. BUT THERE'S A, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO LOOK ON BOTH SIDES AS TO WHAT WE'RE, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY EXCLUDING OF THOSE 70 AVAILABLE OR 170 AVAILABLE. HOW MANY ARE WE ABSOLUTELY GIVEN ZERO OPPORTUNITY. SO ANYWAY, THOSE ARE THINGS TO THINK ABOUT IN IN ESTABLISHING ESTABLISHING WHAT IS BASICALLY A FOOTPRINT TO WHATEVER THESE STRUCTURES ARE THAT WE'RE, WE'RE DEALING WITH. YES, THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT. IT'S ABOUT 3:25. SO WE PROBABLY WANT TO MOVE OVER TO OUR REGULAR MEETING. I JUST A COUPLE MORE ITEMS TO HIT ON. WE TALKED ABOUT AFFORDABILITY, EFFICIENT USE OF LAND SUPPORTS, INFILL DEVELOPMENT. THE ALLEY ACCESS LOTS DON'T TYPICALLY RESULT IN MORE STRUCTURES. SO LIKE WE WERE SAYING WITH CHRIS, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE ALREADY STRUCTURES BACK HERE. IT'S JUST AN OWNERSHIP ISSUE BETWEEN THE TWO LOTS. AND THEN I THINK SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT IS THAT IT CONTINUES GALVESTON'S CULTURAL TRADITIONS. WE HAVE A LONG TRADITION OF ALLEY LIVING AND ALLEY OWNERSHIP. AND IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THIS BOOK, THE ALLEYS AND BACK BUILDINGS OF GALVESTON, IT'S REALLY FASCINATING. I'M HAPPY TO LEND IT TO ANYBODY IF THEY PROMISE TO GIVE IT BACK. IT'S REALLY INFORMED. IT'S DONE BY ELLEN BEASLEY, WHO'S A GREAT ARCHITECTURAL HISTORIAN, BUT ALSO CULTURAL HISTORIAN. AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT A LOT OF THESE ALLEY ACCESS LOTS TAKE PLACE IN AREAS THAT ARE TRADITIONALLY BLACK. SO THIS IS THIS AREA SORT OF SOUTH OF BROADWAY IN THE 30S IS TRADITIONALLY A BLACK NEIGHBORHOOD. AND SO IS THIS ONE HERE. AND SO WE WANT TO BE SURE THAT WE'RE BEING SENSITIVE TO GALVESTON'S CULTURAL TRADITIONS. I THINK THAT'S REALLY ALL WE HAD TO GET ON. AND THEN I HAD SOME NEXT STEPS BUT I THINK INSTEAD OF THESE NEXT STEPS, WE WILL JUST KEEP WORKING BECAUSE WE REALLY WANT TO HEAR FROM ROB. SO WE'LL SCHEDULE ANOTHER WORKSHOP, AND WHEN I'LL GET WITH ROB AND SEE WHAT HIS SCHEDULE ALLOWS. I'M SORRY. YEAH. NO, I'M JUST SAYING JUST A SHORT TIDBIT LIKE ONCE. [00:55:01] BESIDES THE BEGINNING SURVEY AND THE APPLICATION TO DO THESE ITEMS, I MEAN, RIGHT OFF THE TOP, YOU'RE AT 7500 JUST FOR SEWER AND WATER TAP. I MEAN, JUST TO EVEN CONSIDER AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THESE. SO I MEAN, POTENTIALLY THAT'S THAT'S JUST SOMETHING WE SHOULD CONSIDER AS A WHOLE IS, YOU KNOW THE AMOUNT OF ORDINANCES THAT WE PLACE ON THIS. I MEAN, IT'S IT JUST EQUALS MONEY OF WHETHER OR NOT IT MAKES SENSE. SO ABSOLUTELY. OVERALL GOT TO BALANCE IT RIGHT. OKAY. IF YOU WANT TO ADJOURN US, THEN WE'LL WE'LL ADJOURN OUR WORKSHOP AND MOVE ON TO OUR REGULAR MEETING. THANKS, EVERYBODY. THANK YOU. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.