[00:00:03]
>> THIS IS THE BUILDING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS AND APPEALS REGULAR MEETING.
[Building Board of Adjustment and Appeals on February 4, 2025. ]
IT'S A LITTLE AFTER 9909 11:00 A.M. ON TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 4.WE HAVE A CALL TO ORDER, WHICH IN ATTENDANCE IS JUST GO DOWN THE LINE WITH YOUR NAMES, PLEASE.
>> DOES ANYONE HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST WITH ANY OF THE TWO CASES THAT WE HAVE ON THE AGENDA TODAY?
>> JANICE, JUST FOR THE RECORD, CAN YOU JUST INTRODUCE YOURSELF, SAY YOUR NAME AND YOUR TITLE?
>> ABSOLUTELY. MY NAME IS JANICE NORMAN.
I'M THE FLOODPLAIN ADMINISTRATOR AND BACKFLOW INSPECTOR FOR THE CITY OF GALVESTON.
>> WHO ELSE IS PRESENT FOR THE CITY?
>> RIGHT THERE. JUST QUICK PUSH ON THAT.
>> MY NAME IS DONNA FAIRWEATHER SR. ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY FOR THE CITY OF GALVESTON.
>> OKAY WE'RE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND SKIP THE ELECTION OF VICE-CHAIR I'M SORRY, TO OUR NEXT MEETING.
WE HAVE NEW BUSINESS. WE HAVE TWO CASES.
THE FIRST CASE IS 25 BBA 01 A BUILDING PERMIT COMMERCIAL PERMIT 2021-00179 WAS ISSUED ON JANUARY 11TH OF 2022 FOR THE FOLLOWING SCOPE OF WORK.
THE RENOVATION OF AN EXISTING 22,300 SQUARE FOOT THREE-STORY STRUCTURE FROM BUSINESS TO MULTIFAMILY RESIDENTIAL WITH THE ADDITION OF AN ADDITIONAL 07,434 SQUARE FEET TO THE FOURTH ROOF LEVEL.
THE CITY OF GALVESTON ORDINANCE 23011 APPLIES TO A SPECIFIC TIME FRAME FOR CONSTRUCTION OF PERMITS.
THE ORDINANCE REQUIRES EXPIRATION OF A PERMIT 24 MONTHS AFTER THE DATE OF ISSUANCE.
ACCORDING TO THE NOTED ORDINANCE, A PERMIT PERIOD MAY BE EXTENDED BY DEVELOPMENT SERVICES FOR A PERIOD OF SIX MONTHS.
BY APPLYING THE REQUIREMENTS OF THIS ORDINANCE, THE REFERENCE PERMIT EXPIRED ON JANUARY 11 OF 2024.
FURTHER THE SIX MONTH EXTENSION PERIOD PASSED AS OF 711 2024 WITHOUT ANY EXTENSION REQUEST FROM THE PERMIT HOLDER.
THE PERMIT HOLDER WAS ADVISED OF THE PERMIT EXPIRATION AND APPLICABLE ORDINANCE.
SUBSEQUENTLY, THE PERMIT HOLDER HAS APPLIED FOR AN EXTENSION UNDER SECTION C, WHICH AUTHORIZES THE BUILDING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS AND APPEALS TO EXTEND THE PERMIT UNDER SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES.
THE REFERENCE CODE IS CHAPTER 10, SECTION 10-5 OF THE CITY OF GALVESTON CODE OF ORDINANCES.
REQUESTED ACTION FROM THE BOARD TODAY IS THE PERMIT HOLDER IS REQUESTING AN EXTENSION OF THE ORIGINAL PERMIT UNDER SECTION C OF THE NOTED ORDINANCE CITING INSUFFICIENT TIME TO COMPLETE THE PROJECT.
THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT IS MANDATED TO APPLY THE REFERENCED ORDINANCE AS WRITTEN AND AUTHORIZED BY CITY COUNCIL.
PLEASE SEE THE ATTACHMENTS WITH YOUR STAFF REPORT.
>> COMMISSIONERS, I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHO HAS EVER BEEN ON THE COMMISSION BEFORE.
IT'S BEEN A MINUTE SINCE WE'VE MET.
BUT THIS IS THE TIME FOR ANY COMMISSIONER TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS OF STAFF REGARDING THE CASE THAT'S BEING PRESENTED.
FIRST, YOU CAN ASK QUESTIONS OF STAFF AS TO THEIR THOUGHT WHY HE, ETC.
THEN JANICE, IN THIS CASE, WE'LL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING.
THE APPLICANT WILL BE ABLE TO SPEAK FIRST AND PRESENT HIS DISPOSITION OF WHAT HE THINKS SHOULD HAPPEN TO THE CASE AND THEN WE OPEN IT UP FOR THE REST OF THE AUDIENCE, IF THERE ARE ANY COMMENTS REGARDING THE CASE.
THE APPLICANT WILL THEN HAVE THE FINAL SAY IN TERMS OF THE PUBLIC HEARING ISSUE, AND THEN IT GOES BACK TO YOU.
IS THAT'S ALL THAT STAFF HAS TO PRESENT FOR THE SUMMARY?
>> IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS OF STAFF, THIS IS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE COMMISSIONERS TO ASK STAFF.
>> I HAVE NO QUESTIONS FOR STAFF.
>> YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO ON THE LINE.
>> YES. BOTH OF THESE ISSUES ON THE AGENDA TO HAVE SIMILAR REASONS FOR BEING BROUGHT TO THE BOARD HERE.
[00:05:02]
I UNDERSTAND THAT THE LETTER OF THE LAW IS THE TWO YEARS.WHAT'S THE SPIRIT OF THAT LAW? IS IT WHAT'S THE REASON THAT WE PUT A TWO YEAR LIMIT ON IT JUST SO I CAN HAVE A CONTEXT ON WHY WE ARE GOING TO BASICALLY GIVE A VARIANCE OR DISCUSS GIVING A VARIANCE ON THAT?
>> I TRY NOT TO POP IN SOMETIMES, BUT I DO AND I'M JUST GOING TO SAY YOU DON'T ADDRESS YOUR QUESTIONS NECESSARILY IN ME.
YOU CAN ADDRESS IT TO THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT, I GUESS, IN THIS CASE.
BUT I WILL SAY MY PERSPECTIVE ON THE REASONINGS BEHIND THE TWO YEAR EXTENSION IS DUE TO PROJECTS THAT LAPSE, DUE TO PROJECTS THAT REMAIN IN AN UNPERMITTED STATUS, AND THEY JUST LANGUISH.
THE CODE WAS CHANGED SEVERAL YEARS AGO, BUT NO MORE THAN FIVE, SIX YEARS AGO, DUE TO PROJECTS JUST LANGUISHING AND OR PEOPLE DOING PIECEMEAL AND THEN LETTING IT BE STAGNANT FOR SEVERAL MONTHS, AND THEN THEY'LL COME BACK AND SAY, "OH, I STILL HAVE AN ONGOING PERMIT, SO I CAN STILL CONTINUE TO DO THIS." BUT AGAIN, PROJECTS TAKE MORE TIME THAN WHAT SHOULD TYPICALLY TAKEN TO COMPLETE IT.
THAT'S MY PERSPECTIVE AND THAT WAS THE REQUEST THAT WAS GIVEN YEARS AGO TO CHANGE THE CODE TO MAKE THAT TWO YEAR PERMIT STATUS, THE ABILITY FOR APPLICANTS TO COME TO THE BUILDING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS IS UNIQUE BECAUSE THIS BOARD IS WHAT'S CONSIDERED A QUASI JUDICIAL BOARD.
I DON'T KNOW IF I EVER SPOKE WITH YOU GUYS ABOUT WHAT THAT IS.
BUT WHAT THAT MEANS IS THE DECISIONS THAT YOU MAKE ARE FINAL.
THEY DON'T GO TO PLANNING COMMISSION, THEY DON'T GO TO THE CITY COUNCIL.
IF SOMEONE HAS AN ISSUE WITH THE DETERMINATION, THEIR REDRESS, I GUESS, WOULD BE TO A HIGHER COURT, A DISTRICT COURT, A COUNTY COURT.
THAT'S WHY THIS IS CONSIDERED A QUASI JUDICIAL BOARD.
THERE'S ONLY TWO BUILDING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND APPEALS, AND THE ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS AND APPEALS.
THERE ARE THE ONLY TWO QUASI JUDICIAL BOARDS.
BUT I'LL LET BOB AND JAISON SPEAK ON THE HISTORY OF THE TWO YEAR PERMITTING AND ETC.
>> ONE MORE THING BEFORE JOE AND HER CHIME ON THIS.
I ASSUME IT'S KEEP OUR JOBS FROM BECOMING JUST STAGNANT, WHERE THERE'S NO PROGRESS.
ALSO, MAYBE EVEN TO KEEP IT FROM WHERE IT'S UNDER THE RADAR TO WHERE PEOPLE AREN'T BASICALLY ALLOWING THEMSELVES TO SET TO THE STANDARDS THAT YOU GUYS SET FOR THEM.
BUT THAT'S JUST AN ASSUMPTION AND AGAIN, I JUST WANTED TO SEE WHERE WE'RE AT ON THAT.
>> WELL, I WASN'T PART OF ESTABLISHING THE ORDINANCE, BUT I WOULD THINK THAT IT'S AIMED AT THE JOBS THAT ARE ABANDONED.
THERE ARE SEVERAL JOBS THAT GET ABANDONED AND NOBODY DOES ANYTHING SO I THINK THIS ORDINANCE PROBABLY IS AIMED AT SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT.
THERE'S SEVERAL JOBS THAT JUST SIT AND LINGO FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME AND THEY CREATE HAZARDS.
THEY CREATE SAFETY HAZARDS, WHEN STORMS COME THROUGH AND BLOW STUFF AROUND WHERE THERE'S NOBODY THERE WORKING ON THE JOB TO DEAL WITH IT.
I WOULD SAY THAT THAT'S THE REASON FOR THE ORDINANCE.
AS FAR AS WE'RE CONCERNED, WE'RE JUST APPLYING THE LETTER OF THE ORDINANCE.
IT'S STRICT AS FAR AS WHAT WE CAN ALLOW AND NOT ALLOW.
IT'S TWO YEARS AND SIX MONTHS, AND THAT'S IT.
AFTER THAT, IT BECOMES AN ISSUE FOR THE BUILDING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS AND APPEALS.
>> AGAIN, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT I'M MEETING SOME OF YOU.
I'M GOING TO MAKE A COPY OF A TEMPLATE THAT THE BUILDING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT HISTORICALLY USES TO RENDER THE DECISIONS.
BECAUSE IT'S A QUASI JUDICIAL BOARD, THERE ARE ONLY CERTAIN PARAMETERS THAT YOU CAN OR CANNOT GRANT A VARIANCE.
I'M GOING TO GET A COUPLE OF COPIES, AND I WILL JUST BASICALLY SAY, YOU CAN FIND FOR A VARIANCEBAND YOU CAN ADJUST THE REQUEST OF AN APPLICANT.
[00:10:07]
AS AN EXAMPLE, LET'S SAY A VARIANCE IS ASKING FOR 20 FEET, BUT YOU FIND BASED ON WHAT'S BEING PRESENTED THAT 12 FEET IS ACCOMMODATING, YOU CAN SAY, I WILL GRANT THE VARIANCE, BUT WE'RE ONLY GOING TO DO FOR 12 FEET.YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? WHEN YOU CAN ADJUST A VARIANCE, BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE VARIANCE EITHER HAS TO APPLY OR DOES NOT APPLY TO THE PROVISIONS OF THE CODE.
AN EQUALLY GOOD OR BETTER METHOD OF CONSTRUCTION IS PROPOSED OR NOT PROPOSED, AND AN EQUIVALENT METHOD OF PROTECTION OR SAFETY IS PROPOSED.
THEN THE LAST POINT OF THE FOUR PRONG TEST IS THE TRUE INTENT OF THE CITY CODE IS CORRECTLY INTERPRETED OR INCORRECTLY INTERPRETED.
IT'S BASICALLY A FOUR PRONG TEST.
I'M GOING TO MAKE A COPY OF THIS BECAUSE I DON'T THINK YOU GUYS HAVE IT.
TINA WOULD HAVE ALL THIS STUFF, SO WE APOLOGIZE THAT TINA IS NOT HERE TODAY.
DO YOU WANT ME TO OPEN IT UP NOW OR DO YOU WANT TO GO AHEAD AND GIVE THEM THAT?
>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF STAFF?
>> WHEN I GUESS AFTER THE TWO YEARS IS UP, DO THE PERMIT HOLDERS GET LIKE A NOTICE OR IS IT JUST THEIR OWN RESPONSIBILITY TO GO AND ASK FOR THE EXTENSION?
>> THE PERMIT USUALLY SAYS AND DEFINITELY THE CODE SAYS THAT THEY ARE TO REQUEST AN EXTENSION BEFORE EXPIRATION OF THEIR PERMIT.
>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF STAFF? OKAY. SEEING NO OTHER QUESTIONS, WE'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING.
>> OKAY. CAN THE APPLICANT STATE HIS NAME AND THE CASE NUMBER AGAIN IS BB.
>> HELLO. MY NAME IS DAVID WATSON.
I'M THE ARCHITECT ON THE COTTON EXCHANGE BUILDING AT 21ST AND MECHANIC STREET.
I MADE A LIST AND SOME COMMENTS.
THIS ORDINANCE THAT WAS PASSED BY THE CITY IS IN DEFERENCE TO THE INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE, SECTION 10.5.
IT SPECIFICALLY STATES, EXPIRATION, A PERMIT SHALL COMMENCE WITHIN SIX MONTHS OF A PERMIT BEING ISSUED, AND WILL REMAIN IN EFFECT UNTIL A PROJECT IS COMPLETED UNLESS CONSTRUCTION STOPS FOR A PERIOD OF SIX MONTHS.
EVEN CITY STAFF HAS COMMENTED THAT THIS ORDINANCE THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY SITTING HERE DEALING WITH HAS NOT BEEN APPLIED PREVIOUSLY.
IT TELLS YOU YOU'VE BEEN TWO YEARS, AND THIS HAS NEVER COME BEFORE YOU.
I KNOW FROM A FACT I HAVE HAD PROJECTS IN THE PAST THAT EXCEEDED THE 30 MONTH PERIOD ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS.
THE 24 MONTHS WITH SIX MONTHS EXTENSIONS IS AN INSUFFICIENT TIME ON A COMPLEX OR LARGE PROJECT.
ONCE A PERMIT IS ISSUED, THE CLOCK STARTS, ACCORDING TO THIS ORDINANCE THAT YOU ALL ARE ENFORCING AT THIS POINT.
THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY WHEN CONSTRUCTION IS ABLE TO START BECAUSE A CONTRACTOR IS NOT SITTING ON HIS HANDS, WAITING FOR A PERMIT TO COME THROUGH.
ONCE A PERMIT COMES THROUGH, THEN HE HAS TO MOBILIZE AND GET ALL THE SUBCONTRACTORS IN PLACE.
THIS CAN EASILY TAKE ONE OR TWO MONTHS, SOMETIMES LONGER DEPENDING ON WHAT THE PROJECT IS.
WE'VE ALREADY EATEN INTO THE TWO-YEAR TIME FRAME SEVERAL MONTHS BY THE TIME WE ACTUALLY MOBILIZE ON THE JOB SITE.
RENOVATION PROJECTS CAN ALSO ENCOUNTER UNKNOWNS, WHICH CAN IMPACT THE PROGRESS AND ABILITY TO MOVE FORWARD.
EXAMPLES FOR THE COTTON EXCHANGE BUILDING.
THE ELEVATOR SHAFT WAS DISCOVERED TO BE CLAY TILE WITHOUT FILLING THE CELLS.
WE HAD TO GO BACK IN AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO DEAL WITH THAT.
THE CONCRETE WALLS WERE DISCOVERED TO HAVE REBAR EXPANDING INSIDE OF THEM, AND WE HAD TO GO AND FIGURE OUT A WAY TO USE KEVLAR AND EPOXY TO STABILIZE THE WALLS.
[00:15:07]
ALL THIS TAKES TIME THAT'S NOT IN THE ORIGINAL PERMIT AND YOU DON'T APPLY FOR A PERMIT FOR JUST LITTLE INDIVIDUAL THINGS LIKE THIS.THIS IS ALSO A REGISTERED HISTORIC PROJECT, WHICH ANYTIME WE ARE GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS, IT GOES TO THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION AND THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE.
THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE TAKES 60 DAYS EACH TIME SOMETHING IS SUBMITTED TO THEM.
IF THEY DON'T LIKE SOMETHING, THEY SUBMIT AND TELL US TO FIX IT AND COME BACK WITH A DIFFERENT SOLUTION.
IN THE CASE OF THE WINDOWS ON THE COTTON EXCHANGE BUILDING, IT TOOK OVER SIX MONTHS TO GET THE WINDOW DESIGN APPROVED.
THEN WE HAD TO ORDER THE WINDOWS.
THE ELEVATOR IN THE BUILDING TOOK 57 WEEKS FROM THE DAY IT'S ORDERED, NOT THE START OF CONSTRUCTION, BUT FROM THE DAY WE'RE ABLE TO ORDER THE ELEVATOR, IT TOOK 57 WEEKS TO GET IT HERE.
THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE THE ACTUAL INSTALLATION, WHICH WE'RE HELD UP ON BECAUSE OF A CENTERPOINT ISSUE RIGHT NOW.
JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA, ANOTHER PROJECT THAT IS UNDERWAY.
THE ELEVATOR IS SCHEDULED TO COME IN IN 48 WEEKS.
THE ROSENBERG LIBRARY, WE WERE DOING AIR CONDITIONING WORK TO GET THE CHILLERS MANUFACTURED AND DELIVERED TO THE JOB SITE ONCE THEY WERE ORDERED, NOT ONCE THE PERMIT WAS ISSUED, BUT ONCE THEY WERE ORDERED, TOOK 13 MONTHS TO GET HERE.
THIS TWO YEAR PERIOD IS NOT A GOOD TIME FRAME FOR A LOT OF THESE LARGER DIFFICULT CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS.
>> CENTERPOINT ENERGY ON THE COTTON EXCHANGE BUILDING.
DURING THE PROCESS OF THE BUILDING BACK IN THE SUMMER, THE REPRESENTATIVE FOR CENTERPOINT FOR THE DOWNTOWN AREA RETIRED AND A NEW ONE CAME IN.
THE NEW ONE CAME AND LOOKED AT THE SITE AND SAID, WELL, YOU'VE PUT IN 208 VOLT METERS BANKS.
WE DON'T OFFER 208 VOLT ANYMORE.
ALL OF DOWNTOWN IS TWO AWAIT VOLT.
BUT THIS NEW REPRESENTATIVE SAID, WE DON'T OFFER THAT ANYMORE.
SO WE TOOK FOUR MONTHS OF GOING UP THE LADDER AT CENTERPOINT TO GET THEM TO GO, WELL, THAT'S STUPID, WE'RE NOT GOING TO PUT IN 220 VOLT POWER FOR ONE BUILDING IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA.
WE'LL CONTINUE TO USE 208 VOLT OFF THE CURRENT METERS.
BUT IT TOOK FOUR MONTHS OF DEALING WITH CENTERPOINT AND THAT STOPPED A LOT OF THE ABILITY TO DO FORWARD BECAUSE A LOT OF THE ITEMS LIKE THE ELEVATOR INSTALL CAN'T HAPPEN UNTIL WE HAVE PERMANENT POWER.
WE CAN'T HAVE PERMANENT POWER TILL CENTERPOINT SAYS OKAY.
SO WE WERE TRAPPED FOR ANOTHER FOUR MONTHS WAITING ON THAT.
THEN THERE'S THE ISSUE IF YOU DO NOT EXTEND THIS PERMIT, HOW DO WE DEAL WITH A PERMIT THAT HAS A BUILDING THAT'S UNDER CONSTRUCTION AND YOU'VE STOPPED THE PERMIT AND WE HAVE TO COME BACK AND REPERMIT.
JUST SO YOU KNOW ASALA, THE PROGRAM THAT THE CITY USES TO ISSUE PERMITS AND WHERE YOU GO TO REQUEST INSPECTION DOES NOT TRACK THE TWO YEAR TIME FRAME.
IN FACT, THE COTTON EXCHANGE BUILDING SUBMITTED A REQUEST FOR AN INSPECTION AFTER THE EXPIRATION DATE THROUGH ASALA, THE CITY CAME OUT AND DID THE INSPECTION AFTER THE EXPIRATION DATE BECAUSE THE CITY DOESN'T HAVE A WAY OF EVEN TRACKING THE TWO YEAR PERIOD THROUGH ITS PROGRAMMING.
SO WHEN THEY SAY, WE DON'T NOTIFY ANYBODY, THEY DON'T EVEN NOTIFY THEMSELVES.
YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHEN THE PERMITS EXPIRED UNLESS SOMEONE SPECIFICALLY ASKED THE QUESTION, HAS THIS PERMIT EXPIRED.
AND THEN WE GET INTO THE SITUATION WHERE NOW YOU HAVE TWO CASES THAT HAVE COME UP ALREADY AND I THINK THERE'S PROBABLY MORE ON THE PATHWAY TO HAPPENING BECAUSE OF THIS TWO YEAR PERIOD.
BUT IF WE SAY YOU'RE NOT GOING TO ISSUE THE PERMIT AND EXTEND IT, THEN HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THE PERMIT THAT'S ALREADY IN PLACE? BECAUSE THE NO CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY HAS BEEN ISSUED AND WE HAVE CHANGED PERMIT CODES SINCE THE TIME THE ORIGINAL BUILDING WAS PERMITTED.
HOW DO WE ADDRESS THE ONGOING WORK? WE MAY HAVE ONE APARTMENT THAT'S 99% COMPLETE, BUT DOESN'T HAVE ITS PERMANENT CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY AND THE ONE NEXT DOOR TO IT IS 75% COMPLETE.
DO WE HAVE TO GO BACK AND REPERMIT THE WHOLE BUILDING AND REVISE THE BUILDING ACCORDING
[00:20:06]
TO THE NEW 2021 CODE OR DO WE GO BACK TO THE PREVIOUS CODE THAT WAS IN EFFECT? THE CITY DOESN'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO DO THIS.THEY'RE NOT EVEN SURE HOW WE WOULD GO BACK AND REQUEST A PERMIT FOR A BUILDING THAT'S PARTIALLY COMPLETED.
>> I SEE YOUR POINT. I'M IN THE INDUSTRY TOO, SO I'M FAMILIAR WITH ALL THE DELAYS.
THE ONLY QUESTION I'D BE WORRIED ABOUT IS, WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR ON THE EXTENSION?
>> WELL, RIGHT NOW WE'RE HOPING FOR SIX MONTHS.
BUT BECAUSE WE'VE DEMOBILIZED THE WHOLE PROJECT, WE'VE GOT TO GET THE SUBS AND THE GENERAL AND EVERYBODY COMING BACK INTO THE PROJECT.
THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE LIKE, WE READY, COME ON OVER.
THEY DIDN'T SIT AROUND WAITING FOR US.
THEY'VE MOVED ON TO OTHER PROJECTS, SO WE HAVE TO GET BACK ONTO THEIR SCHEDULE.
I KNOW THE OWNER WANTS TO BE DONE IN SIX MONTHS, BUT WE'RE AT THE MERCY OF SUBCONTRACTORS AND CONTRACTORS THAT HAVE ALREADY STARTED THE PROJECT.
>> I UNDERSTAND THAT. HOW DOES STAFF HANDLE IT? WHAT IF THEY ASK FOR SIX MONTHS? CAN I GO BACK AND FORTH? AND THEN THEY NEED MORE.
DO WE COME BACK AND DO THIS THING AGAIN OR WHAT?
>> WE'D HAVE TO ADDRESS THAT AS IT COMES UP.
I WILL SAY THAT STAFF HAS TALKED ABOUT SOME REVISIONS TO THE CODE REGARDING THESE LARGE CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS, SO I DO EXPECT THAT THERE MAY BE SOME CODE AMENDMENTS IN THE FUTURE WITHIN THE SIX MONTH TIME FRAME TO ADDRESS THESE LARGE CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS.
BUT RIGHT NOW YOU'RE DEALING WITH THE SITUATION THAT'S BEING PRESENTED.
MY QUESTION AS WELL WAS HOW LONG OF AN EXTENSION YOU WERE REQUESTING BECAUSE I DID NOT SEE IT IN THE STAFF REPORT.
SO YEAH. AND I WILL ALSO SAY THAT EACH CASE THAT'S BEING PRESENTED TODAY IS AN INDIVIDUAL CASE.
SO I KNOW THERE'S BEEN A REFERENCE TO ANOTHER CASE THAT'S ON THE DOCKET ON THE AGENDA, BUT WE'RE REALLY ONLY DEALING WITH THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THIS PARTICULAR CASE AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME.
>> MY REQUEST WOULD SAY, WE'RE REQUESTING SIX MONTHS, BUT GIVE STAFF THE ABILITY TO DO A SIX MONTH EXTENSION WITHOUT HAVING TO COME BACK.
>> WHEN YOU SAID THAT THE CONSTRUCTION HAS STOPPED, DID THE CITY ISSUE A STOP WORK ORDER IN RESPONSE TO THE EXPIRED PERMIT?
>> NO, BUT WE CAN'T ASK FOR ANY INSPECTIONS.
>> YOU CAN'T GET INSPECTIONS BECAUSE THE PERMIT HAS EXPIRED?
>> AND THAT'S WHY YOU HAD TO STOP PROGRESS?
>> SO TO SOME EXTENT, THE CITY HAS EXTENDED THE TIME OF CONSTRUCTION BY THE FACT OF THE ORDINANCE?
>> WANT TO CLARIFY SOMETHING HERE.
WE'RE NOT HERE IN ANY CAPACITY TO REPEAL SECTION 10.5.
I KNOW THAT'S BEEN PRESENTED AS MAYBE AN UNREASONABLE THING, BUT WE'RE NOT HERE FOR THAT.
WE'RE HERE FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF LOOKING AT THESE CIRCUMSTANCES AND FIGURE OUT IF WE'RE GOING TO EXTEND A PERMIT IN THIS PARTICULAR ONE INSTANCE, CORRECT?
>> BUT MY POINT WAS TO GET IT OUT THERE THAT THIS ORDINANCE THAT IS CURRENTLY IN PLACE AND HAS NOT BEEN ENFORCED UP UNTIL NOW IS GOING TO CREATE HEADACHES AND NEEDS TO BE REVIEWED.
SO GET IT OUT THERE, TALK ABOUT IT, TALK TO THE COUNCIL PEOPLE.
OTHERWISE, YOU'RE GOING TO BE BUSY.
>> MAY I ASK ONE MORE QUESTION REGARDING YOUR RESPONSE TO THE FORM YOU SUBMITTED THE APPLICATION FOR THIS HEARING.
I THINK IT CALLS FOR THREE DIFFERENT OR FOUR DIFFERENT THINGS TO BE ON THAT SUBMITTAL.
OBVIOUSLY, THE REASON WHY YOU'RE LONGER THAN TWO YEARS WHICH YOU'VE WELL EXPLAINED. THANK YOU.
AND THEN ASKED FOR ADDRESSING HOW YOUR CONTINUED CONSTRUCTION IMPACTS THE NEIGHBORS AROUND YOU AND I'M ASSUMING IN THAT BUILDING, THERE IS NO IMPACT.
BUT I NOTICED YOU DIDN'T RESPOND TO THAT ON YOUR APPLICATION.
AND THEN THE LAST ONE IS HOW DO YOU PLAN ON CONTINUING? I THINK YOU'VE ANSWERED THAT AS WELL.
BUT MY REAL QUESTION IS TO THE STAFF, ARE THOSE POINTS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD CARE ABOUT, WHETHER THEY'RE ON THE SUBMITTAL OR NOT?
[00:25:01]
DOES THAT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE TO US OR IS THIS SO NEW THAT WE DON'T KNOW YET?>> LET'S MR. GERTNER ANSWER THE FIRST PART OF THE QUESTION [LAUGHTER] I'M LOOKING AT.
>> AND WE DO HAVE TO MAKE THE DISTINCTION.
SORRY. LET'S LET THE APPLICANT ANSWER THE FIRST PART OF YOUR QUESTION WHICH I THINK IS HIS APPLICATION.
>> SURE. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WHEN WE HANDED IN THE APPLICATION TO TINA, SHE SAYS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THIS.
WE HAVEN'T DONE THIS. I NEED TO TALK TO JOE.
SO THE QUESTIONS YOU'RE ASKING NOBODY REALLY KNEW WHAT THIS APPLICATION SHOULD BE AND SO WE JUST SAID, WE NEED A PERMIT EXTENSION.
AND THERE WASN'T ANY DIRECTION ON REALLY HOW WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE SUBMITTING.
>> WE'RE BREAKING NEW GROUND HERE.
>> YOU'RE BREAKING NEW GROUND.
>> SO I'M GOING TO CLARIFY A LITTLE BIT.
WE ACTUALLY HAVE HAD [LAUGHTER] EXTENSION CASES BEFORE.
THIS IS NOT BREAKING NEW GROUND. IT REALLY ISN'T.
IT MAY BE FOR THE APPLICANT, BUT IT'S NOT FOR THIS BOARD AND IT MAY BE FOR SOME NEW MEMBERS OF THE BOARD.
BUT I THINK THE QUESTION WAS, HOW DOES YOUR PROJECT AFFECT THE COMMUNITY AROUND IT? I THINK THE BOARD WANTED TO HEAR A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE PROJECT MAYBE.
>> WELL, IF YOU DON'T EXTEND IT, IT'S GOING TO SIT THERE AS UNFINISHED CONSTRUCTION PROJECT WHILE WE FIGURE OUT HOW TO REPERMIT EXPIRED PERMIT AND THEN SUBMIT THAT FOR PERMITTING AND IT GOES THROUGH THE PERMITTING PROCESS, THEN WE START THE PROJECT BACK UP.
SO YOU COULD BE LOOKING AT A YEAR BEFORE WE EVEN GET BACK INTO CONSTRUCTION, SO THAT BUILDING WOULD SIT THERE JUST FENCED OFF.
>> AND I THINK THE POINT THEY WERE ASKING WAS HOW WOULD THE YOU'VE ANSWERED, HOW DOES THE NON CONTINUING CONSTRUCTION AFFECT THE NEIGHBORHOOD? THE QUESTION WAS, HOW DOES THE CONTINUING CONSTRUCTION AFFECT THE NEIGHBORHOOD? AND FROM WHAT I RECALL OF THE PROPERTY, YOU'RE NOT AFFECTING THE NEIGHBORHOOD MUCH AT ALL IN TERMS OF YOUR CONSTRUCTION.
>> WE'RE A CORNER PROPERTY, WHERE THERE'S NO REAL OFF SITE CONSTRUCTION.
THE SIDEWALK ALONG THE TWO SIDES OF THE BUILDING IS CLOSED.
THAT IS THE ONLY IMPACT THAT IT HAS RIGHT NOW.
BUT YOU'VE GOT OTHER PROJECTS THAT HAVE HAD SIDEWALKS CLOSED FOR CONSIDERABLY LONGER.
FOR INSTANCE, THE MEDICAL ARTS BUILDING ACROSS THE STREET.
THAT SIDEWALK HAS BEEN CLOSED.
I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW LONG THAT SIDEWALK HAS BEEN CLOSED?
>> THANK YOU. YOU'VE ANSWERED MY QUESTION. I APPRECIATE.
>> I WOULD ONLY HAVE, LIKE I SAID, THE SAME AS THE ORIGINAL GENTLEMAN ON THE END, I'M SORRY, I FORGOT YOUR NAME, SIR.
AGAIN, THE SPIRIT OF THIS LAW TO KEEP THINGS FROM LANGUISHING FOR AN UNDETERMINED AMOUNT OF TIME AND YOU'VE GOT SOMEWHAT OF A SENSE.
I ALSO WOULD BASICALLY SPEAK TO THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE.
AS MISS DONNA HAS SAID, IT HAS HAPPENED BEFORE.
I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN A PROJECT ON THE ISLAND THAT WAS A HISTORICALLY BASED WHICH IS SIMILAR TO YOU THAT HAD VERY UNIQUE CUSTOM PROBLEMS THAT CAME WITH IT.
SO I UNDERSTAND IT. WE WORKED THROUGH IT.
BUT IT JUST GOES BACK TO ME, IT'S LIKE HIS QUESTION.
IS THERE AN END IN SIGHT? HAVE YOU PRETTY MUCH BREACHED OR BROACHED ALL THE UNFORSEEN AS FAR AS YOU CAN TELL RIGHT NOW.
AGAIN, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S A LOADED QUESTION MAYBE IN SOME WAYS, BUT ARE THE MAJOR STRUCTURAL THINGS BEEN EXPOSED TO WHERE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DEALING WITH NOW? DO WE HAVE A REASONABLE AMOUNT BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE NOT REALLY I MEAN, I WOULD SAY WE WANT TO KEEP GOING JUST WE GET THE SIDEWALK OPEN, GET THE NEIGHBORHOOD GOING BECAUSE I WALK DOWN THERE A LOT AND WE DO HAVE TO JUMP ACROSS THE STREET WHERE THERE'S NOT REALLY A GOOD CROSSING THERE TO GET AROUND THAT BLOCK.
SO WHICH IT'S REQUIRED TO SOME EXTENT WHEN YOU'RE DOING A PROJECT, I UNDERSTAND, BUT HOW LONG IS IT GOING TO GO ON? IT'S REALLY GOING TO BE MY MAIN THEME ON THIS BEFORE I VOTE ON IT.
DO WE HAVE A REASONABLE EXPECTATION?
>> JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHERE WE ARE.
THE ELEVATOR IS SITTING IN A WAREHOUSE BECAUSE WE CAN'T INSTALL THAT UNTIL WE GET CENTERPOINT TO CONNECT PERMANENT POWER WHICH WE CAN'T DO UNTIL WE CAN FINALIZE THE PERMIT.
THE INTERIOR, THE KITCHEN CABINETS ARE IN, ALL THE COUNTERTOPS ARE IN THE APPLIANCES ARE SITTING IN PLACE.
THE LIGHT FIXTURES ARE IN, THE FLOORING IS IN.
[00:30:02]
THE FOURTH FLOOR IS PROBABLY 60% COMPLETE.THE 1, 2, AND 3 ARE PROBABLY 95% COMPLETE.
THE EXTERIOR, WE HAVE A LITTLE WORK LEFT ON THE GRANITE PANELS AND THEN WE HAVE THE SIDEWALK.
THE SIDEWALK IS A DIFFERENT PERMIT.
THAT DOESN'T COME INTO PLAY FOR THE BUILDING CONSTRUCTION.
WE HAVE THE ENTRY DOORS THAT ARE TO BE GLASS BLOCKED TO RESTORE THEM TO THE ORIGINAL DOORS.
WE DIDN'T WANT TO DO THAT UNTIL WE WERE PRETTY MUCH OUT OF THE BUILDING AND WE DIDN'T WANT TO PUT IN THE BRAND NEW FRONT DOORS AND THE GLASS BLOCK AROUND.
SO SIX MONTHS IS WHAT WE ANTICIPATE GIVING THE START UP TIME.
I WAS TALKING TO THE OWNER YESTERDAY AFTERNOON AND THEY WOULD REALLY LIKE TO BE FINISHED IN APRIL SO THAT WE MAKE THE JUNE UTMB LEASING PERIOD.
SO THAT'S WHAT OUR GOAL IS IS SOMETIME IN APRIL, BUT WE'RE AT THE MERCY OF SOME OF THESE SUBS COMING BACK INTO PROCESS.
>> YOU SAID THE COUNTERTOPS AND CABINETS AND THEN IS THAT SAFE TO ASSUME THEN YOU'VE ALREADY GOT THE TOP OUT FOR HV, PLUMBING, AND ELECTRICAL DONE SINCE WE'RE ALREADY COVERING THINGS UP, OR IS THAT STILL YET TO BE?
>> NO, I DON'T KNOW IF WE'VE GOT WELL, I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE FINAL INSPECTION ON THE MEPS, BUT ALL THE HVAC EQUIPMENT IS IN ALL THE DUCTWORK, THE SHEET ROCK.
EVERYTHING IS SHEET ROCKED, IT'S PAINTED, FLOORING IS IN, THE BASEBOARDS TO TRIM, THE DOOR KNOBS, ALL THAT'S IN.
BASICALLY WHAT'S HOLDING US UP ON FINAL WAS THE CENTERPOINT ISSUE WHICH CAME UP RIGHT AS THE PERMIT WAS EXPIRING AND WE'VE WORKED THROUGH THE CENTERPOINT ISSUE, BUT WE CAN'T MOVE FORWARD WITH THE PERMANENT POWER CONNECTION UNTIL WE HAVE A PERMIT IN PLACE.
>> I ACTUALLY HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
AND SO CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.
YOUR PERMIT EXPIRED BUT YOU HAVE NOT UP UNTIL THIS POINT REQUESTED AN EXTENSION BEFORE THE BOARD.
>> THE PERMIT EXPIRED, YOU DIDN'T FALL WITHIN THE 20 DAYS?
THE REASONING BEHIND THIS REQUEST IS BECAUSE A PERMIT EXTENSION WAS NOT REQUESTED BEFORE THE PERMIT EXPIRED.
THAT'S NUMBER 1. THE SECOND QUESTION IS, DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT IN THE CODE, IF YOU WANTED MORE THAN A SIX MONTH EXTENSION, YOU CAN ACTUALLY REQUEST THAT OF THIS BOARD?
>> THAT IS NOT WHAT'S WRITTEN AS FAR AS WE'VE READ IN THE ORDINANCE.
>> ACCORDING TO WHAT I SEE HERE, THE BUILDING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS CAN GRANT AN EXTENSION UP TO A YEAR.
HOWEVER, IT COMES WITH APPLICABLE FEES, 25.
IF YOU NEEDED MORE TIME, WOULD IT BE AMENABLE TO REQUEST NINE MONTHS BEFORE THIS BOARD?
>> WOULD NINE MONTHS FIT BETTER IN COMPLETION OF THIS PROJECT?
>> I'M HOPING SIX MONTHS DOES, BUT NINE MONTHS WOULD BE BETTER, THAT MEANS WE DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT AT ALL.
ONE THING THAT YOU MENTIONED, WE DIDN'T COME BACK, BUT EVEN THE CITY DOESN'T TRACK THE EXPIRATION AND INSPECTION WAS REQUESTED AFTER THE PERMIT EXPIRED THROUGH THE ESL PROGRAM, AND THE CITY DID THE INSPECTION, NOT EVEN RECOGNIZING THEMSELVES THAT THE PERMIT HAD EXPIRED.
THERE'S NO WAY THAT THE CITY IS EVEN TRACKING THESE DATES UNTIL SOMEONE SPECIFICALLY COMES IN AND ASKED THE QUESTION.
>> WELL, I WOULD THINK YOUR PROJECT MANAGER UNDERSTANDS THAT HE NEEDS TO MAKE THE CITY AWARE WHEN THINGS ARE EXPIRING AND REQUEST AN EXTENSION.
>> WELL, THAT STATEMENT SHOULD BE BOTH WAYS TOO.
>> THAT'S NOT EVEN THE BASIS OF HERE BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THE POSITION IS AN EXTENSION OF THE PERMIT.
I DO JUST WANT TO ASK ANOTHER QUESTION IN TERMS OF THE ABILITY OF THE BOARD TO GRANT A VARIANCE, NEEDS TO BE BASED ON SOME SPECIFICS.
I'VE HEARD IN YOUR NARRATIVE MANY THINGS THAT HAVE EXTENDED THIS PROJECT.
[00:35:04]
I BELIEVE THE BOARD HAS GOTTEN THE SHEET, PART OF WHAT THEY HAVE TO REVIEW IS TAKING THE NARRATIVE THAT YOU'VE PRESENTED AND SAY, DOES THIS REQUEST FIT WITHIN THE SPIRIT OF WHAT THE BBA CAN DO? JUST IN MY MIND AND TO HELP THE BOARD, DO YOU THINK THE REQUEST APPLIES TO THE PROVISIONS OF THE CODE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT?>> THE INTENT OF THE CODE IS TO MAKE SURE A PROJECT CONTINUES TO MOVE FORWARD.
WE HAVE NOT STOPPED WORK IN THAT 30 MONTHS.
>> THAT'S AN EXCELLENT ANSWER.
THE ISSUE WITH WHETHER OR NOT AN EQUIVALENT METHOD OF PROTECTION OF SAFETY IS PROPOSED, THIS PROJECT WILL CONTINUE.
THIS IS NOT GOING TO POSE A HAZARD TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS JUST GOING TO BE IN PLACE.
WHILE WE'VE BEEN SHUT DOWN, WE ACTUALLY CLEANED EVERYTHING UP.
IF YOU DRIVE BY NOW, COMPARED TO THREE OR FOUR WEEKS AGO, IT'S A VERY CLEAN LOOKING SITE.
WE TOOK THE TIME TO GO THROUGH THE BUILDING AND CLEAN IT.
IT'S ACTUALLY GIVEN US A MOMENT TO CLEAN THINGS UP AND WE ALL KNOW THAT CLEANER AREAS MAKE FOR AN EASIER WORK ENVIRONMENT.
IT HAS HELPED A LITTLE BIT FROM THAT STANDPOINT.
THE OWNER IS READY TO MOVE FORWARD.
HE'S GOT $6 MILLION IN THIS PROJECT.
HE DOESN'T WANT TO JUST SIT ON $6 MILLION WITHOUT IT BRINGING AN INCOME.
>> YOU'RE NOT REQUESTING A DIFFERENT TYPE OF CONSTRUCTION OR A BETTER TYPE OF CONSTRUCTION.
THIS IS SIMPLY AN EXTENSION OF TIME TO COMPLETE THE PROJECT?
>> ONE MORE THING. IT SEEMS LIKE HE'S SATISFIED THE THREE REQUIREMENTS, IN WRITING GOOD CAUSE FOR THIS TO HAPPEN, PROVIDE A TIMELINE FOR COMPLETION OF WORK AND DEMONSTRATING DOES HE JUST SAID THE APPROPRIATE MEASURES THAT WILL BE TAKEN TO MITIGATE THIS EFFECT.
MY QUESTION TO YOU IS ON THE SECTION 4 OF THAT EXTENSION, IT GIVES US LIKE YOU SAID, THE THREE CHOICES THERE OF TIMELINE EXTENSIONS.
DOES THOSE EXTENSIONS EXTEND FROM WHEN HIS PREVIOUS PERMIT EXPIRED OR IF THEY WERE TO EXTEND IT TODAY, DOES IT EXTEND FROM TODAY? BECAUSE NINE MONTHS FROM WHEN IT EXPIRED WOULD REALLY CUT INTO HIS EXTENSION, IS REASON I ASKED THAT QUESTION.
>> WHEN YOU EXTEND FROM ITS GOOD?
>> BECAUSE THAT DETERMINES HOW MUCH I GIVE THEM.
>> FROM HERE, THAT'S ALLOWED BY THE ORDINANCE IS ON [OVERLAPPING]. THIS IS IT.
>> IF THE BOARD GRANTS AN EXTENSION, I'D WANT IT CLARIFIED FOR HOW LONG THIS EXTENSION IS, WHAT AN EXPIRATION DATE FOR THAT CLARIFICATION.
>> IN THE SITUATION OF EXTENDING A PERMIT, IT WOULD BE FROM THE DATE THAT IT'S BEING GRANTED TO THE TIME FRAME.
>> WOULD YOU SAY THAT AGAIN, FROM THE DATE THAT THE EXTENSION IS GRANTED, NOW THAT WE'RE NOT GOING BACK TO WHEN THE PERMIT EXPIRED, BUT STARTING TODAY MOVING FORWARD.
YOU'RE CONFIDENT THAT NINE MONTHS AND WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO SEE YOU AGAIN?
>> I DON'T WANT TO BE HERE AGAIN, SO YES.
>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING IN THE AUDIENCE TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS CASE? WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.
CALL FOR A VOTE? CALL FOR A MOTION?
>> YOU GO AHEAD. YOU HAD YOUR HAND UP FIRST.
>> IN REVIEW OF THE EVIDENCE AND ALL PRESENTATIONS FOR CASE NUMBER 25 BBA-01.
I MAKE THE MOTION THAT REQUEST OR PROVISIONS MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF GRANTING A VARIANCE WITHIN THE MEETING OF CHAPTER 10 OF THE CITY CODE OF THE CITY OF GALVESTON AND THE INTERNATIONAL CODE COUNCIL.
>> THERE'S A SECOND PART TO THAT.
YOU GOT TO CONTINUE TO PART 2.
>> IN SUPPORT OF THE MOTION, THE REQUEST OF THE PROVISIONS OF THE SUBJECT CODE APPLY A REQUIRING OF A VARIANCE.
[00:40:03]
AN EQUALLY GOOD OR BETTER METHOD OF CONSTRUCTION IS NOT PROPOSED.AN EQUIVALENT METHOD OF PROTECTION OR SAFETY IS NOT PROPOSED.
THE TRUE INTENT OF THE CITY CODE HAS BEEN CORRECTLY INTERPRETED.
>> DO YOU WANT TO SPECIFY THE TIME?
>> WE'RE GOING TO GO WITH THE SIX.
I SAW SIX. DIFFERENT FEES APPLY.
BUT IT'S UP TO THE BOARD TO NEED TO SPECIFY TIME.
YOU CAN STATE THAT IN YOUR MOTION, AND THEN THE APPLICANT WILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH WHATEVER YOU GUYS GRANT.
>> SECTION 4 OF IT DOES LIST, 869, I WAS JUST LOOKING AT THE PERCENTAGES.
>> DO YOU WANT TO PUT A TIME FRAME ON THAT, SIR?
>> EXTEND THE PERMIT TO NINE MONTHS. IS THERE A SECOND?
>> I'M SORRY. CAN YOU JUST SAY YOUR LAST NAME?
>> HALL. THANK YOU. ANY DISCUSSION? THIS IS WHEN THE GROUP CAN ACTUALLY TALK ABOUT THE MOTION, IF THERE ARE ANY COMMENTS THAT THEY WANT TO SAY OR ANY QUESTIONS BASED OFF OF THE MOTION AMONG EACH OTHER?
>> I JUST WANT TO SAY ONE THING [INAUDIBLE] THE CITY OF GALVESTON TO TRACK PERMITS, FIRSTLY THE PROJECT MANAGER.
IF YOU'RE DOING A JOB, YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN YOUR PERMIT LAST.
>> THE COMMENTS ARE TO EACH OTHER ON THE BOARD, NOT TO THE AUDIENCE.
THAT'S THE SAME COMMENT YOU CAN MAKE, BUT YOU CAN MAKE IT TO YOUR BOARD MEMBERS.
>> I GET STOPPED BECAUSE I WAS GOING 45 AND 35, BUT THEY SAID, NO, THIS IS 35.
I FORGET THE LEGAL TERM FOR THAT, BUT THE BURDEN OF KNOWING IT WHEN I SIGN THAT PERMIT OR WHEN I HAVE A DRIVER'S LICENSE OR IN THIS CASE SIGN A PERMIT MEANS I SHOULD BE FAMILIAR WITH ALL THE INS AND OUTS AND I KNOW BECAUSE AGAIN, I'M IN THE TRADES AS WELL, AND I'VE SUFFERED AT THAT BEFORE WHEN ONE OF MY GUYS DID SOMETHING THAT I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT.
I'M STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR IT, AND I HAVE TO HAVE TO PLAY BALL WITHIN THE RULES AND I THINK THE CITY GOVERNS THIS TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITY WITH THE SYSTEM THAT'S IN PLACE.
>> IT IS TRUE. I'VE HAD PROJECT COMPLETELY DROP OFF THE ESL PROGRAM, DISAPPEARED COMPLETELY.
YOU DO UNLESS YOUR HANDS ON, YOU CAN'T RELY ON THE ESL PROGRAM AT ALL. I KNOW THAT.
>> IN THAT CASE, WHERE THE OTHER HISTORICAL PROJECT THAT WENT LONG, I HAD TO DO THAT, TOO, LIKE YOU SAID IT DROPPED OFF.
I CALLED UP TO THE APPROPRIATE PEOPLE AND WE TOOK STEPS TO MAKE SURE IT HAPPENED.
>> I KNOW THAT THIS PROBABLY ISN'T MR. WATSON'S FIRST BIG PROJECT DOWNTOWN AND AS SOMETHING I'VE EXPERIENCED PERMITTING TOO.
I'VE NEVER COME ACROSS IT EXPIRING PERSONALLY FOR ME.
IT'S JUST SOMETHING, I DON'T WANT TO SAY NEW, BUT IT'S SOMETHING NEW TO HIM.
IT'S HIS FIRST TIME GOING THROUGH IT.
>> I DO APPRECIATE THAT THERE ARE UNIQUE CHALLENGES TO HIS AND AGAIN, I ALWAYS LOOK AT THE LETTER OF LAW, BUT I ALSO UNDERSTAND THERE WAS THE SPIRIT OF THAT LAW.
I THINK WE CAN AS A GROUP, CAN AGREE THAT IN THE SPIRIT OF THAT LAW THAT WE'RE GOING TO DO WHAT'S RIGHT FOR HIM AND FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
>> MOVE AHEAD TO A VOTE THEN, AND TO A MOTION FOR A VOTE.
>> JUST CALL THE VOTE. ASK FOR A VOTE.
>> FROM THE STANDPOINT. THIS NEXT ONE, THEY'RE DONE.
JOB PROJECTS. I WONDER IF WE CAN DIG A LITTLE BIT OF DISCUSSION AND JUST GO STRAIGHT TO A VOTE TO APPROVE THE NEXT ONE.
>> WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON TO CASE 25 BBA 02, 1105 HARBOR VIEW.
THIS IS ALSO A BUILDING PERMIT WAS ISSUED 5/27 OF 2020 FOR THE FOLLOWING SCOPE OF WORK, A NEW HOME.
THE CITY OF GALVESTON ORDINANCE 23-011 APPLIES TO THE SPECIFIC TIME FRAME FOR CONSTRUCTION.
THE ORDINANCE REQUIRES EXPIRATION OF A PERMIT WITHIN 24 MONTHS AFTER THE DATE OF ISSUANCE.
ACCORDING TO THE NOTED ORDINANCE,
[00:45:02]
A PERMIT PERIOD MAY EXTEND BY DEVELOPMENT SERVICES FOR A PERIOD OF SIX MONTHS.BY APPLYING THE REQUIREMENTS OF THIS ORDINANCE, THE REFERENCE PERMIT EXPIRED 5/27 OF 22.
THE PERMIT HOLDER WAS ADVISED OF THE EXPIRATION AND THE APPLICABLE ORDINANCE.
SUBSEQUENTLY, THE PERMIT HOLDER HAS APPLIED FOR AN EXTENSION UNDER SECTION C, WHICH AUTHORIZES THE BUILDING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS AND APPEALS TO EXTEND THE PERMIT UNDER SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES.
THE REFERENCE CODE IS UNDER CHAPTER 10, SECTION 10-5.
THE REQUESTED ACTION IS THE PERMIT HOLDER IS REQUESTING AN EXTENSION OF THE ORIGINAL PERMIT UNDER SECTION C OF THE NOTED ORDINANCE, CITING INSUFFICIENT TIME TO COMPLETE THE PROJECT.
STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THAT WE ARE MANDATED TO APPLY THE REFERENCED ORDINANCE AS WRITTEN AND AUTHORIZED BY CITY COUNCIL, AND THEIR ATTACHMENTS IN YOUR STAFF REPORT.
ANYONE HAVE QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? WE'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AND THE APPLICANTS.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO SAY SOME WORDS?
MY COMPANY IS PHILLIP J DOUGLAS INC. BECAUSE IT'S A GENERAL CONTRACTOR FOR THE PROJECT IN QUESTION 1105 HARBOR VIEW DRIVE.
WE SCHEDULED THE FINAL INSPECTION ONLINE FOR DECEMBER 19 OF LAST YEAR.
SUBSEQUENT TO THAT, CITY STAFF ADVISED US THAT THE PERMIT HAD EXPIRED AND WE NEEDED TO BEGIN THIS PROCESS. WE'VE DONE THAT.
WE'VE GOT ALL OF OUR DOCUMENTATION FOR THE SUBMITTAL FOR THE CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY IS READY.
WE'RE REQUESTING THE PERMIT EXTENSION.
>> I HAVE QUESTIONS. THE PROJECTS COMPLETE, YOU'RE DONE.
>> THERE'S NOTHING LEFT TO DO. IT'S DONE.
>> HOW LONG HAVE THIS PROJECT BEEN GOING ON?
>> SINCE IT WAS PERMITTED. ACTUALLY, PERMIT TIME IS AGAIN A BIT DECEPTIVE.
I THINK LIKE DAVID WATSON MENTIONED, WE PERMITTED IT IN FEBRUARY OF LET'S SEE, 2020, I BELIEVE IN PILING WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY SET AND READY TO BUILD ON.
FRAME WORKS COULDN'T START UNTIL TOWARD THE END OF OCTOBER OF THAT YEAR.
THERE WAS ABOUT AN EIGHT MONTH LAG THERE BEFORE WE COULD ACTUALLY BEGIN VERTICAL CONSTRUCTION.
>> CAN I ASK OF STAFF? SO IN TERMS OF A PERMIT EXTENSION, WHAT IS STAFF SEEKING?
>> WHAT ARE YOU SEEKING? I MEAN, THE PROJECTS ALREADY COMPLETED.
>> WELL, WHAT HE'S WANTING A IS A FINAL.
>> AND IT'S OUR POSITION THAT THAT PERMIT HAS EXPIRED, SO WE CAN'T GIVE HIM A FINAL INSPECTION UNTIL IT'S EXTENDED.
>> AND IT EXTENDED FOR A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME OR JUST EXTENDED FOR 30 DAYS?
>> YEAH EXPIRED IN 2022 AND IT WAS NOT EXTENDED FROM THAT POINT EVEN.
SO IT'S OUR POSITION THAT WE'RE JUST NOT AUTHORIZED BY THE CODE TO CONTINUE FURTHER.
I MEAN, THAT WOULD JUST BE AN ASSUMPTION ON MY PART THAT IT WAS OKAY TO GO AND DO THAT WHICH WHICH I COULD DO, BUT IT'S NOT CONDUCIVE WITH THE ORDINANCE AS IT'S WRITTEN PERMITS EXPIRED.
SO IT'S OUR POSITION THAT WE CAN'T MAKE AN INSPECTION ON A PERMIT THAT'S ALREADY EXPIRED.
>> CORRECT. SO AS I'M UNDERSTANDING IT IN MY HEAD, THE PROJECT PERMIT HAS EXPIRED FOR OVER TWO YEARS, THIS BOARD COULD ONLY EXTEND IT FOR A YEAR.
AS I'VE STATED, AN EXTENSION GOES FROM THE DATE THAT IT'S GRANTED IF IT'S GRANTED FOR A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME.
NOW, I THINK WHAT I'M HEARING IS BECAUSE SORRY, BECAUSE IT'S BEEN SO LONG AND THERE REALLY SHOULD BE SOME ACCOUNTABILITY FOR LETTING A PROJECT GO 2.5 YEARS FOR NOT DOING STUFF WHEN THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE DOING IT.
[00:50:05]
HOWEVER, THE PROJECT IS COMPLETED.SO THIS BOARD CAN GRANT AN EXTENSION OF A PERMIT.
THEY CAN GRANT IT FOR A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME.
THE PERMIT WOULD GO FROM THE DATE OF THE GRANT OUTWARD.
MINIMALLY, WE'RE LOOKING PROBABLY AT SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE FEES THAT ARE ATTACHED TO THE PERMIT.
AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE I THINK STAFF IS SAYING, OKAY, WE CAN'T GO BACK AND UNRING THE BELL, BUT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET A BUY.
YEAH, I'M THINKING ABOUT IT IN MY HEAD.
COMMISSIONERS YOUR UNDERSTANDING WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS OR MY THOUGHTS ON IT?
>> YEAH, I THINK BASICALLY THERE'S TWO THINGS YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH.
IT'S NOT JUST THE TIME BECAUSE WE CAN EXTEND THIS THREE MONTHS EASY AND GET YOUR TIME TO DO THE INSPECTION.
BUT THERE'S MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES HERE THAT ALSO INVOLVE ANY FEES THAT YOU ALL MAY DEEM THIS NECESSARY.
SO I THINK I NEED SOME DIRECTION ON HOW YOU ALL WANT US TO ACCOMPLISH THAT WITHIN BECAUSE, WE'VE GOT THE GUIDELINES FOR THE EXTENSION, BUT WHAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING THERE IS NOT IN THESE GUIDELINES.
>> I'M NOT QUITE SURE IF YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE FEES.
>> BUT FEES, CAN YOU ATTACH FEES FOR EITHER STOP NOTICES OR WERE ANY OF THOSE ISSUED IN THIS CASE? STOP WORK ORDERS OR.
>> NO STOP WORK ORDER HAS BEEN ISSUED.
>> NO STOP WORK ORDERS ISSUED?
>> NO. AS FAR AS I KNOW IT'S NOT.
>> I'D LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION TO HIM.
I KNOW YOU'VE ALLUDED TO IT A LITTLE BIT IN THE IN YOUR DOCUMENTATION HERE BUT WHY DID IT GO TWO YEARS OVER?
>> JUST TYPICAL DELAYS ASSOCIATED WITH A PROJECT LIKE THAT, MOST PROJECTS YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE DELAYS.
THIS ONE IS A UNIQUE PROJECT ARCHITECTURALLY AND STRUCTURALLY, QUITE INVOLVED.
THERE WERE CHANGES MADE DURING THE PROJECT WHICH WILL SLOW THE MOMENTUM OF PROJECT DOWN.
THEY'RE CERTAINLY WELCOME IN THE PROJECT IS BETTER FOR ANY CHANGES THAT WERE MADE.
ALSO SOMETHING I JUST THOUGHT ABOUT THIS LAST WEEKEND, WE WENT RIGHT THROUGH THE HEART OF COVID WITH THIS PROJECT.
SO THAT SLOWED THINGS DOWN FOR OUR TRADE PARTNERS FOR THEIR SUPPLIERS, ETC.
AGAIN, JUST SUPPLY CHAIN ISSUES.
>> THE COVER ANY MATERIALS OR ARCHITECTURAL THINGS INVOLVED IN THIS PROJECT THAT COULD BE SOURCED LOCALLY.
ARE YOU SAYING THAT THEY WERE VERY CUSTOMIZED DUE TO THE CUSTOMER DID THAT AFFECT THE TIMING?
>> WE HAD A CONTAINER SHIP WITH MATERIALS FROM INDONESIA THAT WERE USED.
WE HAD FLEW SOME TON PRODUCTS IN FROM AUSTRALIA.
>> SOME OF THE FIXTURES HERE LOOK LIKE.
>> MAY I ALSO SAY I'M AN OWNER, TARLYN TARLETON SHANNON.
WHEN WE FIRST STARTED THE PROJECT, COVID HIT AND BALI COMPLETELY SHUT DOWN.
SO WE COULDN'T GET OUR CONTAINERS.
SO BASICALLY, THERE WAS TWO YEARS OF JUST WAITING AND WAITING FOR IT TO REOPEN AGAIN.
SO I THINK THAT HE'S DONE A TREMENDOUS JOB AND EVEN THOUGH WE WERE SHUT DOWN IN THAT AREA, CONSTRUCTION CONTINUED AND OTHER AREAS THAT IT WAS DONE.
AND THE CITY CAME OUT PERIODICALLY EACH TIME AND REVIEWED EVERYTHING AND SO WE THOUGHT THAT EVERYTHING WAS GOING ALONG OKAY WITH THE PERMITTED.
BUT WE'RE VERY EXCITED ABOUT THE HOUSE.
IT'S INCREDIBLY BUILT AND WE'RE JUST READY TO GET INTO IT.
BUT WE DID HAVE SOME OTHER OUTSIDE INTERVENTION THAT AFFECTED WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH.
SO BUT HE'S BEEN A WONDERFUL BUILDER.
>> IMPORTANT ALSO THE CONSTRUCTION HAS BEEN UNDERWAY THE WHOLE TIME, THERE HAS BEEN A LAG, WHICH I THINK THAT THIS ORDINANCE OR THIS CODE IS ATTEMPTED TO ADDRESS.
AND I THINK CITY STAFF FELT THE SAME WAY.
I WAS SURPRISED WHEN WE WENT ON TO SELL, I THINK CALLED TO GET SCHEDULED FINAL INSPECTION.
I SHOWED UP ON A CELL THEN WE WERE ADVISED BY CITY STAFF THAT AS MR. TARLYN MENTIONED THAT HE CANNOT SCHEDULE A FINAL INSPECTION WITH AN EXPIRED PERMIT.
THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE IS TO EXTEND THE PERMIT, GET OUR FINAL INSPECTION, AND CLOSE THE PROJECT.
[00:55:03]
>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT?
>> AS I SEE, HE'S DEMONSTRATED THE NEED FOR THE PERMIT.
THE TIMELINE OF THE COMPLETION OF THE PERMIT, IS IT OR COMPLETION OF WORK IS IT'S ALREADY DONE, APPROPRIATE MEASURES BEING TAKEN TO MITIGATE ANY NEGATIVE EFFECTS.
DOESN'T SOUND LIKE THERE'S NEGATIVE EFFECTS.
IT'S A FINISHED PROPERTY. SO I SEE ALL THOSE THREE HAD BEEN MET AND DID YOU DO THE WHAT DO YOU WANT TO CALL IT UNIQUENESS OF COVID AND NOT JUST FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE, BUT FROM MR. TARLYN AND EVERYBODY ELSE THAT HAD TO DEAL WITH ALL THE CHALLENGES THAT WE'VE NEVER HAD TO DEAL WITH BEFORE.
I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE WASN'T A MALICIOUS OR ANY KIND OF BAD INTENT ON THE EXTENSION OR THE TIMELINE THAT TOOK PLACE.
>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OPEN IT UP TO THE AUDIENCE.
IF THEY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR ANY COMMENTS FROM ANYBODY ELSE IN THE AUDIENCE.
>> ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ON THIS CASE?
>> I WOULDN'T SAY ANYTHING. [LAUGHTER]
>> WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMISSION FOR A MOTION.
>> I JUST HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION.
>> DEPENDS ON THE INSPECTORS CODE.
>> DEPENDS ON HOW LONG IT TAKES TO GET THE INSPECTORS OUT THERE.
>> [LAUGHTER] SO IN REVIEW OF THE EVIDENCE AND ALL PRESENTATIONS FOR CASE NUMBER 25 BDA-02, I MAKE THE MOTION THAT THE REQUEST FOR PROVISIONS MEET REQUIREMENTS OF GRANTING A VARIANCE WITHIN THE MEANING OF CHAPTER 10 OF THE CITY CODE THE CITY OF GALVESTON AND THE INTERNATIONAL CODE COUNCIL.
IN SUPPORT OF THE MOTION, THE REQUESTED PROVISIONS OF THE SUBJECT CODE APPLY, REQUIRING A VARIANCE, AN EQUALLY GOOD OR BETTER METHOD OF CONSTRUCTION IS NOT PROPOSED.
AN EQUIVALENT METHOD OF PROTECTION OR SAFETY IS NOT PROPOSED.
THE TRUE INTENT OF THE CITY CODE HAS BEEN CORRECTLY INTERPRETED.
>> I SECOND THAT [INAUDIBLE] [LAUGHTER] MOTION.
>> VARIANCE IS FOR THREE MONTHS.
>> ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? UNANIMOUS.
>> SO ACTUALLY I SHOULD TELL THE BOARD.
I ACTUALLY CREATE AN ORDER BASED OFF OF THE DETERMINATION HERE.
THE ORDER WILL BE SENT TO JANICE LATINA FOR FILING.
BUT I GUESS GET WITH JOE ABOUT SCHEDULING WHATEVER NEEDS TO BE SCHEDULED.
I DON'T KNOW. YOU'D HAVE TO CALL THEM AND FIND THAT OUT.
>> YES. SO I'LL BE ABLE TO GET THE ORDERS COMPLETED TODAY AND JUST SEND THEM ON OVER. BUT THAT'S IT.
>> CAN I SAY ONE MORE THING, DONNA?
>> I JUST WANT TO MAKE A COMMENT ON RECORD HERE THAT THE CODE ENFORCEMENT DEPARTMENT OR THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT, HOWEVER YOU'D LIKE TO, THEY'RE ONLY GOING TO ENFORCE AND REINFORCE ACCORDING TO WHAT'S WRITTEN.
TO EXPECT THEM TO SHOOT FROM THE HIP ON ANY ONE GIVEN CASE WILL WIND UP CAUSING CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND JUST TOTAL ANARCHY DOWN THE ROAD.
SO I APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT THIS SEEMS LIKE A VERY SIMPLE THING, BUT IT'S NOT.
IT HAS TO FOLLOW PROCESS AND PROCEDURE AND I THINK THEY DO A GOOD JOB OF THAT.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY A BAD STIGMA ATTACHED TO THEM BECAUSE OF THIS.
>> THANK YOU. SO THE CASES ARE CLOSED.
NOW IS THE TIME TO RECEIVE REQUESTS FOR FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS. SO DOES THE COMMISSION HAVE ANY AGENDA ITEMS THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE? I'M GOING TO ACTUALLY ASK JANICE TO PUT ON THE RECORD.
YOU GUYS ARE EXCUSE IF YOU WANT.
IF WE CAN SCHEDULE MAYBE A WORKSHOP FOR THE BBA TRAINING AND THEN FOR THE NEXT MEETING AND I DON'T KNOW WHEN THAT WILL BE.
BUT THERE'S GOING TO BE A COUPLE MORE BECAUSE WE ARE LOOKING AT FROM OUR CONVERSATIONS, JOE, TALKING ABOUT THOSE LARGE CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS.
AND WHEN WE KNOW, SOMETHING WOULD PROBABLY TAKE MORE THAN TWO YEARS AND WON'T HAVE TO COME HERE.
SO WE'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS ON THAT. YES.
>> WELL, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU ABOUT THAT.
YOU GO AHEAD, BUT I DO WANT TO GET BACK TO YOU.
[01:00:01]
WELL, HOW WE ADDRESS THAT? BECAUSE I CAME FROM A CITY THAT HAS ADDRESSED THOSE AND THEY'RE TIMING ON PERMITS IS VICIOUS.>> VICIOUS. YES. THE PERMIT EXPIRE, YOU START ALL OVER AGAIN. NO QUESTIONS.
>> AND HONESTLY, THEY COULD HAVE DONE THAT HERE TOO. THEY COULD HAVE DONE THAT HERE.
I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF VERBIAGE THAT'S BEEN SAID THAT, BUT I CAN'T NECESSARILY ALWAYS PUT MY SPIN ON WHAT I'M HEARING FROM THE APPLICANTS.
BUT I KNOW THIS IS A RELATIVELY NEW BOARD.
SO I DID A LOT MORE TALKING THAN I USUALLY DO.
SO I DO THINK THAT WE SHOULD SCHEDULE A TRAINING AND TO GO OVER THE PARAMETERS AND THE PREVIEWS THAT YOU GUYS HAVE AND HOW TO ADDRESS FOLKS IN THE AUDIENCE AND HOW TO SPEAK WITH STAFF, ETC, AND ASK QUESTIONS AND BE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
I'M PRETTY SURE YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO GET SOME MEETINGS WHERE IT IS TALKING ABOUT AMENDING OUR CITY CODE.
THAT'S WHAT THIS BOARD DOES AS WELL.
YES, ALL THAT'S GOING TO BE IN THE TRAINING ABOUT YOUR PURVIEW.
BUT CHAPTER 10 HAS BEEN AMENDED BASED ON RECOMMENDATIONS OF THIS BOARD.
AND IF THERE ARE THINGS THAT YOU SEE HAPPENING IN THE CITY BECAUSE OF YOUR EXPERTISE, EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD IS QUALIFIED TO BE ON THIS BOARD BECAUSE OF WHAT EXPERTISE THEY BRING.
IT'S NOT JUST ANY WILLINGLY PERSON THAT CAN BE PUT ON THIS BOARD.
YOU HAVE TO BE IN A CERTAIN TRADE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN, WHATEVER TO QUALIFY FOR THIS PARTICULAR BOARD.
SO WE'LL GO OVER ALL OF THAT AND WE'LL DO IT IN A WORKSHOP SETTING.
WE'LL DO TWO HOURS, WHATEVER LONG YOU'LL NEED ME FOR.
BUT I DO SEE MORE ACTIVITY ON THIS BOARD IN THE FUTURE.
ABSOLUTELY. IT WAS A PLEASURE MEETING ALL OF YOU.
I WAS PRETTY PSYCHED BY THE QUESTIONS AND STUFF. I'M SORRY?
SHE WILL GET WITH YOU GUYS ABOUT SCHEDULING THE NEXT MEETING.
TYPICALLY, I WANT TO SAY BBA WOULD MEET EVERYONE COMES, EVERYONE.
TYPICALLY, I THINK THIS MEETING IS THE FIRST AND THIRD TUESDAY OF EACH MONTH, BUT OF COURSE, ONLY WHEN THERE ARE CASES OR AGENDA ITEMS. SO SHE WOULD GET WITH YOU GUYS TO SEE WHAT DATE IS MOST AMENABLE THAT EVERYBODY CAN BE PRESENT FOR AND THEN IT'D BE A WORKSHOP OVER THERE TYPICALLY AND WE HASH IT OUT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS?
>> THANK YOU, GUYS.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.