Jan 09, 2024 Planning Commission Workshop

[Call Meeting To Order *A Portion of this Video Contains No Audio*]

[00:06:04]

I'M GONNA BE UPSET.

[00:06:11]

[INAUDIBLE]. THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WOULD TO ELIMINATE IT.

[INAUDIBLE]. OKAY, WE'LL CALL THE MEETING BACK TO ORDER AND WE WILL BEGIN OUR DISCUSSION ON VAPE SHOPS.

[4.B. Discussion Of Direction From City Council To The Planning Commission Regarding Possible Regulations Regarding Vape Shops Island-Wide. (Staff)]

[INAUDIBLE]. YEAH.

I'M JUST CURIOUS AS TO THE REQUIREMENTS OF A LIQUOR STORE AND I KNOW SOME OF THAT WAS VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT WE SAW ON THE VAPE.

ON SOME OF THE, SOME OF THOSE CITIES WERE DOING.

LET ME PULL THOSE REGULATIONS UP AND WE'LL HAVE A LOOK AT THEM.

OKAY. THANK YOU.

VAPE IS 21 AND UP.

YES, IT'S 21 AND UP, BUT IT.

BUT I READ THROUGH SOME OF THAT AND IT'S SLIPPED MY MEMORY.

I THINK YOU CAN ACTUALLY PURCHASE IT IF YOU'RE 18, BUT YOU HAVE TO BE THERE'S THERE WERE TWO.

THERE'S A THING LIKE IF YOU'RE 18 AND YOU'RE IN THE MILITARY SOMETHING.

YEAH. THERE WAS SOME KIND OF SOMETHING IN THERE FOR THAT.

AND I THINK THERE MIGHT BE A PROVISION FOR KIDS THAT WERE 18 AND THEN THE NEW RULES WERE ADOPTED.

REALLY. AND SO THAT THEY ARE STILL ALLOWED KIND OF A GRANDFATHERED IN.

A REASON TO JOIN THE MILITARY.

[INAUDIBLE] IT'S A PERK.

SO I'D SAY WHILE SHE'S LOOKING AT UP, I JUST I'M GOING TO SHARE A FEW OF MY THOUGHTS ON AND I DO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW THE PROCESS AND THIS WORKS.

I'M GOING TO MAKE AN ASSUMPTION THAT, WE WORKSHOP THIS, AND IF WE WERE TO TAKE ANY ACTION, IT HAS TO BECOME AN AGENDA ITEM.

AND AT THAT POINT IN TIME, I WOULD ASSUME THAT'S WHEN WE WOULD SEND SOME RECOMMENDATION BACK TO COUNCIL.

SO I'D LIKE TO GET SOME CLARIFICATION ON THAT MOVING FORWARD.

IS THAT CORRECT? OKAY.

SO WOW.

SO AS FAR AS WORKSHOPPING THIS, MY THOUGHTS ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS.

ONE, I'M NOT A BIG FAN OF THE CITY BEING BIG BROTHER OVER BUSINESSES.

SO I'LL JUST BE STATE THAT TO START.

HOWEVER YOU KNOW I THINK THIS WARRANTS MAYBE SOMETHING AND MAYBE IT'S SOMETHING THAT PARALLELS OUR REQUIREMENTS WITH LIQUOR STORES AND THEN SOMETHING ELSE THAT I'D LIKE FOR STAFF TO LOOK INTO.

AND I DON'T KNOW THIS TO BE A FACT, BUT IN READING SOME OF THE STATE RULES, IT APPEARS THAT YOU CAN SELL VAPE OUT OF A VEHICLE, AND WE CERTAINLY DON'T

[00:10:03]

SOME OF THEM WOULD PROBABLY NEED SOME CLARIFICATION FROM STAFF OR LEGAL, AND I WOULD ASSUME THOSE WOULD BE THINGS THAT WE COULD DISCUSS WHEN IT'S AN ACTION ITEM, AND WE COULD MAKE SOME DECISIONS AND SEND THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS UP TO CITY COUNCIL.

WELL. SO I FOUND THE REGULATIONS FOR LIQUOR STORES AND THEY ARE PERMITTED IN SEVERAL DIFFERENT ZONING CATEGORIES. SO IN MULTIFAMILY, TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOOD, COMMERCIAL, CENTRAL BUSINESS, RESORT, RECREATION, LIGHT INDUSTRIAL AND HEAVY INDUSTRIAL.

SO MOST OF THE IT'S PERMITTED BY RIGHT IN MOST COMMERCIAL ORIENTED ZONING DISTRICTS, IT'S REQUIRES A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT, WHICH IS AN APPROVAL FROM COUNCIL IN THE URBAN NEIGHBORHOOD DISTRICT.

SO THAT'S THE REGULATION.

THEN THERE ARE REGULATIONS IN CITY COUNCIL, IN CITY CODE THAT REGULATE THE DISTANCES FROM CERTAIN OTHER LAND USES.

SO SALES WITHIN 300FT OF SCHOOLS, DAYCARES AND CHURCHES IS NOT PERMITTED.

IF WE WANTED TO MAKE A CHANGE, COULD WE MAKE A LIMITED USE STANDARD THAT WOULD INCLUDE THOSE DISTANCES IN IT? THAT IS A POSSIBILITY AND A WAY THAT OTHER COMMUNITIES DO REGULATE VAPE SHOPS.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? WELL, I GUESS SO.

I'M JUST CURIOUS AS TO WHAT THE MAIN ARE THESE THE MAIN CONCERNS THAT CITY COUNCIL IS PRESENTING TO US, BECAUSE I'M JUST CURIOUS ABOUT HOW THIS IS A TOP OF THE LIST CONCERN FOR CITY COUNCIL RIGHT NOW.

IF ONE, THE POLICE CHIEF HAS HAD NO SIGNIFICANT ISSUES WITH THE VAPE SHOPS.

THESE FOUR CONCERNS RIGHT HERE ARE PRETTY STANDARD.

THE NEGATIVE EXTERNALITIES YOU FIND THAT EVERYWHERE AROUND.

YEAH. AROUND, YOU KNOW, CONVENIENCE STORES, LIQUOR STORES, GROCERY STORES, ANY WEEKEND IN THE SUMMER ON THE BEACH.

SO I'M JUST CURIOUS ABOUT HOW THIS EVENT IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD BE TAKING THE TIME TO EVEN TALK ABOUT, BECAUSE IT'S A LEGITIMATE BUSINESS. APPARENTLY THEY'VE MET ALL THE REGULATIONS TO OPERATE IN THE CITY, THE COUNTY AND THE STATE.

SO I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT WHY IT'S SUCH A WHAT'S CITY COUNCIL'S MOTIVE? WHAT'S THE BUG? WELL, I JUST TO CLARIFY, THAT'S STAFF'S COMMENTS ON THIS SCREEN.

SO THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE FOUND WHEN WE WERE LOOKING FOR LIKE OTHER COMMUNITIES.

WHY DO THEY REGULATE IT.

SO THAT'S WHERE THOSE COME FROM.

AND PROBABLY COUNCILMEMBER LISTOWSKI WOULD BE BETTER PREPARED TO TALK ABOUT WHAT COUNCIL'S CONCERNS WERE.

AND JUST ON THE LIQUOR STORE THING, THE LAST LIQUOR STORE WAS WHAT? SPECS OR HAVE THERE BEEN OTHERS THAT HAVE OPENED UP? THAT'S THE PROBABLY THE LAST MAJOR ONE, BUT THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN SOME SMALLER ONES ON THE WEST END SOMEWHERE, BUT IN THE CITY, I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING THAT'S BEEN OPENED IN THE LAST 10 OR 15 YEARS.

ON 25TH STREET, BUT THEY MADE.

YEAH, I THINK THOSE ONES ON 45TH STREET HAVE BEEN THERE A WHILE.

I KNOW THERE'S. YEAH.

THEN, AREN'T SOME OF THESE VAPE PRODUCTS AVAILABLE IN CONVENIENCE STORES? YES, THEY ARE SOLD.

VAPE STORES SELL.

THAT'S ALL THEY SELL. BUT THEY CAN BE SOLD AT LIKE ANY OTHER, YOU KNOW, RETAIL ESTABLISHMENT.

OKAY. SO THEN THAT WOULD SAY, ARE WE LOOKING AT THE PRODUCT OR THE ESTABLISHMENT BECAUSE YOU CAN BUY IF YOU CAN BUY E-CIGARETTES AND VAPING PRODUCTS AND JUUL AND ALL THAT AND A BEER AT THE CORNER STORE.

YOU KNOW, I'M JUST TRYING TO SEE WHAT'S PUSHING ALL OF THIS.

YEAH. SO THE DIRECTION FROM COUNCIL WAS SPECIFICALLY VAPE SHOPS.

AND THEY DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE SELLING IN OTHER KINDS OF STORES.

OKAY. AND WHAT IS THE ONE THAT SAYS, PREVENT CLUSTERING EXPLAIN THAT AGAIN, PLEASE.

SOME COMMUNITIES, HAVE A REQUIREMENT THAT VAPE STORES BE LOCATED X NUMBER OF FEET FROM ANOTHER ESTABLISHMENT, ANOTHER SIMILAR ESTABLISHMENT. BUT NOT FOR VAPE STORES. WE DON'T REGULATE VAPE STORES.

[INAUDIBLE] . SCHOOL CHILD CARE FACILITY OR OTHER BUILDING USED FOR EDUCATIONAL RECREATIONAL PROGRAMS FOR MINORS.

[00:15:03]

THAT WAS 20010.

AND THEN.

WE FOLLOWED THAT UP WITH.

IT SHALL BE UNLAWFUL FOR ANY PERSON IN THE BUSINESS OF SELLING OR OTHERWISE DISTRIBUTING PROMOTION OR ADVERTISING TOBACCO PRODUCTS, ELECTRONIC CIGARETS OR VAPOR PRODUCTS. IN THE COURSE OF SUCH PERSONS BUSINESS TO DISTRIBUTE, GIVEAWAY OR DELIVER TOBACCO PRODUCTS.

ELECTRONIC CIGARETTES OR VAPOR PRODUCTS FREE OF CHARGE TO ANY PERSON ANY RIGHT OF WAY, PARK, PLAYGROUND OR OTHER PROPERTY OWNED BY THE CITY, ANY SCHOOL DISTRICT, ANY PARK DISTRICT OR ANY PUBLIC LIBRARY.

SO. HOW'S THAT ENFORCED? WHO ENFORCES THAT 100 FOOT? I DON'T KNOW WHO ENFORCES IT, BUT WE ADOPTED IT.

YOU JUST WRITES THE LAWS. SHE DOESN'T ENFORCE THEM.

WELL, I GUESS WE ADDED THE WHOLE WHEN THE WHOLE VAPING THING CAME ABOUT, AND WE MAY HAVE BEEN A LITTLE BIT BEHIND THE EIGHT BALL IN TERMS OF TIME, BUT WE DID MODIFY THE SMOKING ORDINANCE BACK IN 2010.

AND SO WE ADDED VAPOR PRODUCTS AND E-CIGARETTES AND THAT TYPE OF DEFINITION TO OUR TOBACCO PRODUCTS, ELECTRONIC CIGARETTES AND VAPOR PRODUCTS.

IT'S ACTUALLY THE NEW TITLE.

AND THAT'S CHAPTER 33.5 IN OUR MUNICIPAL CODE.

SO IT'S NOT AN ORDINANCE.

IT'S PART ORDINANCE.

IT'S A REGULATION.

OKAY. AND IT WAS AN AMENDMENT TO OR MODIFICATION OF THE SMOKING ORDINANCE OF 210.

CORRECT. OKAY.

I THINK IT WAS NAMED SMOKING.

NOT QUITE SURE WHAT IT WAS ORIGINALLY TITLED, BUT YEAH, BUT WE AMENDED IT IN 2020.

OKAY. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'VE GOT SOME STUFF ALREADY IN PLACE.

OKAY. WHAT ABOUT AND I JUST SAW THIS TODAY ABOUT BEING ABLE TO SELL VAPE PRODUCTS OUT OF VEHICLES.

IS? THAT I CAN TELL YOU, BECAUSE, I MEAN, THAT MAY FALL UNDER SOMETHING ELSE IN TERMS OF FOLKS.

LIKE ICE CREAM TRUCKS I KNOW CAN SELL ICE CREAM THROUGHOUT AREAS OF THE CITY, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO ITEMS LIKE THAT, I DON'T KNOW.

YOU CAN GET A STATE LICENSE TO STATE PERMIT TO SELL IT.

IT APPEARS TO SELL VAPE PRODUCTS OUT OF A OUT OF A VEHICLE.

SO CAN WE CHECK INTO THAT AND MAKE SURE THAT, I MEAN, LOOK, I JUST GLANCED THROUGH IT.

I THINK I'D SENT CATHERINE, THE STATE REGULATION ON THAT, BUT IF WE COULD GET SOME CLARIFICATION ON THAT. IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE, YOU GUYS? SOUNDS TO ME LIKE WE KIND OF GOT SOME OF THIS COVERED THROUGH OUR AMENDED SMOKING ORDINANCE.

IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU GUYS DO? WE HAVE A LIMIT ON LIQUOR STORES? NO, THERE'S NO LIMIT.

NO DENSITY.

WE KNOW DENSITY LIKE YOU CAN ONLY HAVE X AMOUNT OF LIQUOR STORES.

NO. PER.

YEAH. SO IT'S THERE'S THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENT, FROM CHURCHES, SCHOOLS AND DAYCARESAND THEN THAT'S IT.

YEAH. AND YOU CAN'T GIVE OUT FREE PRODUCT, FREE, CIGARETTE VAPING PRODUCTS.

AND LIKE I SAID, THE PARKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

IT'S INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT, JANUARY 1ST STARTED, NEW REGULATIONS AGAINST THE MARKETING OF VAPE PRODUCTS.

SO THERE CAN'T BE ANY MARKETING, WHICH IS I'M GOING TO CARTOONS, ALL KINDS OF THEY'RE GOING TO CAUSE I MEAN, SOMEBODY CARTOON IS SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW.

RIGHT. UNDERSTOOD.

BUT IT'S THERE.

AND STATE LAW CAME OUT THAT WAS THAT WENT INTO EFFECT ON DECEMBER OF 2023, WHICH REALLY KIND OF GOES WITH CHILDREN VAPING IN SCHOOLS AND WHATNOT.

AND ANYONE UNDER THE AGE OF 21 CANNOT BE CAUGHT WITH THOSE TYPES OF PRODUCTS, OR ELSE THEY GO TO AN ALTERNATIVE SCHOOL SETTING. [INAUDIBLE] QUESTION? YOU KNOW. SO WITH THE RESTRICTION ABOUT PUBLIC OR CITY PROPERTY, A VENDOR THEN COULD NOT SET UP A BOOTH DURING MARDI GRAS AND SELL VAPING PRODUCTS.

I GUESS IT KIND OF ALL DEPENDS ON WHERE THEY SET IT UP.

I MEAN, THERE'S SIDEWALKS, THERE'S STREETS, THEY'RE PUBLIC STREETS.

THEY'D HAVE TO HAVE A PERMIT FOR LOCATION, I MEAN, BUT WOULD THEY? UNLESS IT'S UNLESS THEY'RE DOING IT IN THEIR CAR PARK, THEY'D BE GRANTED A PERMIT FOR MARDI GRAS.

BECAUSE THERE'S ALL KINDS. IF PEOPLE WANT TO GET AROUND SOMETHING, THEY'RE GOING TO FIND A WAY TO GET AROUND IT.

AND I GUESS IT JUST KIND OF BRINGS ME BACK TO LIKE, WELL, A YEAR AGO, THERE WERE PROBABLY 3 OR 4 MORE VAPE SHOPS ON THE ISLAND, AND THE MARKET IS JUST NOT SUSTAINING THEM.

RIGHT. SO I THINK PART OF IT IS JUST THE MARKET'S GOING TO DICTATE WHO SURVIVES AND WHO DOESN'T.

[00:20:06]

FROM WHICH WAY ARE WE FACING? FROM. WHAT'S THAT SCHOOL IT WAS OVER HERE.

IF THEY'RE WITHIN 100FT OF BROAD OF HOPE.

I'M SORRY. THE TORY.

YEAH. [INAUDIBLE] IS NOT THERE ANYMORE, ISN'T THERE? RIGHT BY THE LIBRARY.

OH, TRINITY. YEAH.

I MEAN, IT'S LIKE. LIKE SOMETIMES PEOPLE RENT THE SPACE IN FRONT OF THE BANDSHELL AT MENARD PARK.

FOR PRIVATE EVENTS, YOU KNOW.

SO. OKAY.

THAT'S NOT REALLY WHY.

WHAT COUNCIL WAS TRYING TO DIRECT YOU ALL TO LOOK AT, THOUGH.

I MEAN, COUNCIL WANTED Y'ALL TO LOOK AT THE ACTUAL BUSINESS GOING INTO EITHER LEASING OR BUILDING A VAPE SHOP IN A RETAIL ESTABLISHMENT.

AND WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT I DON'T THINK WE REALLY CARE ABOUT A PERMIT THAT THE CITY WOULD ISSUE FOR SOMETHING, OR THAT'S NOT REALLY THE DIRECTION THAT WE TALKED ABOUT.

YOU KNOW, MARIE ROB IS WHO PUT THIS ON Y'ALL'S PLATE ALONG WITH COUNCIL'S DIRECTION AND SHE WAS CONCERNED WITH.

SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT SHE BROUGHT UP WAS WERE 61ST STREET.

THERE'S ARE TWO VAPE SHOPS THERE.

I DON'T KNOW IF ONE'S STILL OPEN.

ONE OF THOSE DID GIVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS TO THAT AREA.

I THINK THERE WAS EVEN A SHOOTING AT THAT VAPE SHOP.

THERE WAS. AND SO, THAT'S WHAT KIND OF PUT THIS ON THE RADAR.

YOU ASKED IF IT WAS A PRIORITY.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS A PRIORITY.

IT WAS JUST SOMETHING THAT COUNCIL SENT Y'ALL'S DIRECTION.

SO IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REGULATING WHERE VAPE SHOPS CAN OPEN.

STATE LAW ALLOWS FOR.

CITIES TO REGULATE.

AREAS BASED ON A CONDITION SCHOOLS, EDUCATIONAL FACILITIES THAT'S ACCEPTABLE.

BUT IF YOU'RE JUST AND I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A DENSITY MAYBE I HAVE, I WOULD HAVE LOOKED INTO IF THERE'S A DENSITY PROVISION THAT STATE LAW ALLOWS CITIES TO REGULATE, IF YOU HAVE TOO MANY ON ONE BLOCK OR IN A CERTAIN AREA, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A DENSITY.

ALLOWABILITY FOR US TO REGULATE THERE, BUT I THINK WE'RE KIND OF LIMITED INTO HOW WE CAN REGULATE WHERE AND WHEN.

FOLKS CAN PUT IN A VAPE SHOP, YOU KNOW, RESIDENTIAL ZONES ASIDE, HOW ABOUT TIMING? TIMES OF OPERATION? I THINK IT'S THE SAME AS WITH SMOKING.

WE KIND OF UNLESS WE REGULATE SMOKING AND THE TIMES THAT PEOPLE CAN SELL CIGARETTES AND WHATNOT, YOU KNOW, SOUNDS GREAT TO ME, BUT.

WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A BLUE LAW LIKE ALCOHOL, BUT ALCOHOL IS STATE ISN'T STATE AND FEDERAL FOR BLUE LAWS.

RIGHT. SO THAT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THAT JOHN HINTED ON, THAT MAYBE THIS IS WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO GO IS BUILDING.

SO BUILDING A BUILDING OR PUTTING UP A PUBLIC, BUILDING BECAUSE OF THE NEGATIVE CONNOTATION OF VAPE, I GET IT.

SO COULD WE MAYBE, IS WHAT THE GOAL IS OR WHAT THE INTENTION IS TO LOOK AT LIMITING THE STOREFRONT SIZE OR THE SIGN SIZE OF ANY FUTURE VAPE SHOPS.

TO ALLOW A PERSON TO COMMERCIALLY BE IN THE VAPING BUSINESS, BUT NOT A.

NOT DETERRING THEM, BUT MAYBE DETERRING, YOUTH AND EVERYTHING FROM PICKING UP A BAD HABIT.

I DON'T KNOW, SIGNS WOULD.

SIGNAGE WOULD PROBABLY BE REGULATED IN A SIGN ORDINANCE.

YEAH. WE'RE NOT NECESSARILY DOING THE CONTENT.

YOU KNOW, WE REGULATE SIZE, COLOR, DENSITY, THAT TYPE OF STUFF.

SO WE HAVE TO BE KIND OF CAREFUL WITH THAT.

I'M GOING TO KIND OF AGREE WITH ANTHONY.

I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO BE DICTATED.

LET THE MARKET DICTATE HOW MANY VAPE SHOPS ARE GOING TO BE HERE.

I'M I'M OF THE OPINION THAT'S A LITTLE OVERREACHING JUST FOR ME.

YOU KNOW, I MEAN, WE'RE NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF TELLING HOW MANY ICE CREAM PARLORS CAN BE OPENED IN THE TOWN, BUT WE CERTAINLY DON'T WANT THEM ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE HIGH SCHOOL. AND IT SOUNDS LIKE OUR SMOKING ORDINANCE WOULD PREVENT THAT.

[00:25:05]

YOU KNOW, ARE WE GOING TO LIMIT THE NUMBER OF BUSINESSES THAT WE CAN HAVE? HOW DO WE LIMIT, LIKE A STRIP CLUB? SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A SEXUALLY ORIENTATED BUSINESS.

IS THAT WHAT THAT WOULD BE UNDER? YES, SOB? AND THOSE.

I MEAN, IS THAT THE TECHNICAL TERM THAT THE SEXUALLY ORIENTED BUSINESS.

AND SO YOU CAN JUST OUTRIGHT THAT'S LIKE A THEY'RE ALLOWED IN SOME ZONING CATEGORIES.

NOT VERY MANY AND THEY REQUIRE WE JUST REGULATE THEM THROUGH ZONING.

YEAH. THEY ARE REGULATED THROUGH ZONING.

AND THEY REQUIRE A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT.

OKAY. AND CAN CAN YOU REQUIRE A VAPE SHOP TO, THROUGH A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT? THERE ARE OTHER COMMUNITIES THAT DO.

YEAH, THERE ARE OTHER COMMUNITIES THAT DO.

I THINK THAT IF WE DO SEND I MEAN, I WOULD PROBABLY SUGGEST GOING THAT DIRECTION.

YEAH. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY GET.

LICENSED. NOW I KNOW THAT THE STATE WILL LICENSE THEM, AND THERE'S A REQUIREMENT THAT THEY HAVE TO GO IN ORDER TO SELL THESE PRODUCTS.

THE ONLY REASON I SAY THIS IS BECAUSE, I MEAN, I AGREE.

I MEAN, I'M ON THE SIDE OF, HEY, LET THE MARKET DICTATE BUSINESS.

BUT, I COUNCIL HAS GIVEN DIRECTION THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING.

WHETHER THEY SAY YES OR NO TO IT, I THINK PROBABLY SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE PASSED UP THE CHAIN TO COUNCIL.

BESIDES, LET THE FREE MARKET DECIDE ON THESE THINGS.

JOHN, I THINK PART OF WHAT WE DID NOT KNOW UNTIL TODAY WAS THAT WE HAVE A THE SMOKING ORDINANCE HAS SOME LIMITATIONS, I THINK IN BUT THE ONLY THING THAT WOULD LIMIT FROM WHAT I HEAR IS DISTANCE TO A SCHOOL.

I MEAN, IT'S SO NOTHING ON BROADWAY ON 61ST STREET, OR AT LEAST THE TWO ON 61ST STREET PROBABLY WOULDN'T EVEN FALL UNDER THAT.

THEY'D BE LEGALLY.

THEY PROBABLY WOULDN'T PERMIT IT.

I THINK IT WOULD BE REGULATION THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE IN LINE WITH OUR TABC OR TEXAS ALCOHOL BEVERAGE COMMISSION TYPE OF REGULATIONS.

AND I WANT TO SAY FOR TABC, THAT WOULD ALSO BE WOULD IT BE CHURCHES ARE INCLUDED IN THAT.

I KNOW WE'D HAVE AN ORDINANCE THAT WOULD GO TO CITY COUNCIL AND THEY WOULD EITHER SAY YAY OR NAY ON IT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ALSO HEAVILY REGULATED BY THE STATE.

AND. ALLOW CITIES, THOUGH, TO MAKE THOSE IF IT'S CLOSE TO A SCHOOL, THOSE PROXIMITY TYPE OF REQUIREMENTS. AND SO THAT'S WHY CITIES WOULD BE ABLE TO REVIEW.

IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO SELL ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES BESIDE TRINITY OR CLOSE TO IT, I THINK IT'S A 300 FOOT, YOU KNOW, DISTANCE, THAT TYPE OF THING THAT WOULD COME BEFORE US AND BEFORE THE CITY.

I KIND OF, IF YOU WANT TO PUT IT.

SO THE DISTANCE FOR THAT IS, IS FURTHER IT'S MORE THAN 100FT? 300. MHM.

WELL CAN WE. BUT WE HAVE 100.

WHAT IF WE DID YOU KNOW LIKE A COMBINATION OF METHODS THAT I SEE UP HERE YOU KNOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DISTANCES FROM SCHOOLS, CHURCHES, HOSPITALS ETC.

BUT ALSO TOOK BROADWAY AND SEAWALL BOULEVARD.

THOSE ARE AREAS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE FOCUSED ON FROM THE STANDPOINT OF TRYING TO BEAUTIFY AND CERTAINLY KEEPING THE NUMBER OF VAPE SHOPS, OFF THOSE THOROUGHFARES WOULD BE A STEP IN THAT DIRECTION.

YEAH. SO THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD KIND OF MIRROR WHAT'S GOING ON WITH LIQUOR STORES.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S 100FT OR 300FT, BUT LIQUOR STORES ARE ALSO AND EVEN A CONVENIENCE STORE THAT SELLS BEER HAS LIMITATIONS TO SCHOOLS AND TO CHURCHES, JUST TO SCHOOLS IF A CHURCH, I THINK HAS AN EDUCATIONAL PROGRAM INSIDE OF IT, IT MAY COUNT, BUT IT'S NOT FOR HOSPITALS.

IT'S NOT FOR I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IT'S REALLY JUST FOR EDUCATION.

WOULD IT BE TOO COMPLICATED FOR US TO JUST KIND OF MIRROR WHAT'S GOING ON WITH TABC? YES. IN REGARDS TO DISTANCES, I MEAN, THAT WOULD SEEM TO BE SOMEWHAT SIMPLE AND IT WOULD REGULATE IT TO SOME DEGREE, KEEP IT AWAY FROM THE SCHOOLS AND THE CHURCHES.

AND I THINK THAT'S.

I MEAN, I THINK WE CAN PROBABLY ADD CHURCHES TO IT.

YEAH, I'D RECOMMEND THAT IT WOULD GO INTO LDR.

[00:30:01]

AND THEN IT WOULD BE A LIMITATION IN, IN LAND USE.

YEAH. OKAY. SO, WE'RE JUST SINCE WE'RE A LITTLE PRESSED FOR TIME.

ARE YOU GUYS CAN WE DO THIS.

CAN WE LOOK AT WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE AS AN LDR WITH THOSE PACKAGED OR LIQUOR STORE TYPE RESTRICTIONS ON REMEMBER LIQUOR STORES IS 300FT, WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE IN OUR REGULATIONS 100FT.

YEAH, I DON'T SEE THAT DOING ANYTHING THAT WE DON'T ALREADY HAVE IN PLACE.

I THINK WE PROBABLY ADDING SEE IF WE CAN ADD CHURCHES, PROXIMITY TO CHURCHES.

I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY THE 100FT FROM A SCHOOL IS NOT VERY FAR.

EXACTLY. WHICH IS WHY THEY DON'T WANT THOSE VAPE PRODUCTS.

YEAH. IT'S ONLY ABOUT HALF A BLOCK.

YEAH. SO THAT'S NOT FAR.

THAT THAT IS NOT HUNDRED FEET IS FAR AT ALL A BLOCK AND A HALF.

AND SO I WOULD YEAH.

[INAUDIBLE] YOU THINK OF IT REVERSE.

SO I GOT YOU.

SO IF YOU'RE. YEAH.

SO I WOULD SAY IF YOU'RE 300FT IS 100FT IS CLOSE.

I MEAN YOU COULD BE IN THE SAME BLOCK AS A SCHOOL AND BE 100FT, FROM A SCHOOL.

SO THAT'S I JUST I DON'T THINK THAT IS WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR.

WHAT COUNCIL WAS LOOKING FOR.

AT LEAST NOT FROM ONE MEMBER OF COUNCIL.

I MEAN, I THINK THEY WERE LOOKING FOR MORE.

THEY WEREN'T WORRIED. THEY WEREN'T SO MUCH WORRIED ABOUT CHILDREN OR SOMEONE AT A CHURCH IN THE PROXIMITY TO A VAPE SHOP. THEY WERE TRYING TO LIMIT THAT, LIMIT THEM ALTOGETHER.

SO, I MEAN, I'M JUST RELAYING MESSAGES HERE AND I WANT TO TRY TO MAKE SURE WE DO THIS AS TIME EFFECTIVELY AS POSSIBLE.

SO I DON'T WANT IT TO GO TO COUNCIL AND THEN COME BACK AND GO BACK AND FORTH.

NO. AND I'M ALL FOR MY THOUGHT PROCESS AT THIS POINT, JOHN, IS HEY NUMBER ONE WE HAVE A REGULATION.

BUT NUMBER TWO, IT'S ONLY 100FT.

MAYBE WE NEED TO MAKE IT SIMILAR TO WHAT IT IS FOR LIQUOR STORES.

AND THEN I REALLY THINK WE NEED TO CHECK ON THIS VEHICLE THING, BECAUSE THAT COULD BECOME A REAL ISSUE.

I WAS AND LOOK, IF YOU WOULD JUST CHECK INTO THAT, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE CASE, BUT WE CERTAINLY DON'T WANT THE ICE CREAM TRUCK RINGING HIS BELL SELLING VAPE.

SO WE WANT TO.

WELL, THE CURRENT CURRENT CONCESSION REGULATIONS ARE IT'S ONLY FROZEN NOVELTIES THAT CAN GO AROUND IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS RINGING THEIR BELL.

OKAY, SO BUT THEY IF IT'S ALLOWED BY THE STATE, IT COULD BE A STANDALONE.

YES. SO I WOULD JUST LIKE TO.

CATHERINE? THESE FOUR, MUNICIPALITIES THAT ARE PERMITTED AS A LIMITED USE ARE THOSE LARGE, MEDIUM SIZED CITIES.

LET ME LOOK. AND WHAT ARE THEIR STANDARDS FOR THE SPECIFIC.

BECAUSE THE LIMITED USES I MEAN, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT ULYSSES GOT IS YOU GOT TO GET AN SUP.

[INAUDIBLE]. AND SO IF ANY NEW VAPE SHOP OPENS UP, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GET A SPECIAL SPECIFIC USE PERMIT.

YEAH. THAT'S BEEN THE BEST.

YEAH. JUST SO.

OKAY. THAT COVERS [INAUDIBLE].

THAT'S WHAT I'M THINKING. [INAUDIBLE] DOES THAT ALSO LIMIT HOURS? BUT THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT SOMEBODY WANTS TO, YOU KNOW, OPEN UP A SHOP AND THEY APPLY FOR AN SUP THAT IS AUTOMATICALLY GOING TO BE SHUT DOWN BY CITY COUNCIL.

I MEAN, THAT'S THE PERCEPTION THAT EVERYONE'S GOING TO HAVE.

AND THAT'S NOT THE WAY YOU RUN GOVERNMENT.

RIGHT? I THINK TO HAVE THAT SORT OF TABC TYPE OF STANDARDS AS WELL.

AND THAT IS ABLE TO BE ADVOCATED FOR IF SOMEBODY EVER SUES THE CITY AND WE COULD DO THOSE WITH LIMITED USE STANDARDS, COULD WE.

YES. INSTEAD OF I MEAN THAT IT'S WE COULD THAT'D BE A START.

THAT'D BE A PLACE TO START IN MY OPINION.

I SOME OF THOSE USE STANDARDS.

COULD BE HOURS OF OPERATION.

YEAH. WE COULD LIMITED USE STANDARDS THAT INCLUDE HOURS OF OPERATION AND OTHER LAND USES.

OKAY. I DID.

WE JUST DON'T WANT TO.

AND AGAIN, THIS TAKES MORE RESEARCH.

IF STATE ALLOWS IT.

WE MAY BE PREEMPTED FROM REGULATING IT.

AND. I JUST DON'T KNOW IF STATE ALLOWS, LIKE WITH ALCOHOL BLUE LAWS THAT THEY CAN ONLY SELL DURING A CERTAIN TIME.

I WAS SURPRISED AT HOW LOCATION WAS NOT REAL SPECIFIC IN WHAT I READ UNDER THE VAPING STUFF.

SO IF YOU COULD CHECK ON THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE A GOOD PLACE FOR US TO START.

IS DOING A LIMITED USE STANDARD HAVING DISTANCES THAT ARE EQUIVALENT TO LIQUOR STORES?

[00:35:03]

IT'S KIND OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN GO IN AND BUY SOME EGGS AT THE SAME TIME.

WELL, I THINK THE DEAL IS HAVING A VAPE SHOP OPEN 24 HOURS A DAY, SEVEN DAYS A WEEK.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE KIND OF SAYING.

HEY, I MEAN, IF THEY'RE OPEN TILL MIDNIGHT, THEY'RE OPEN TILL MIDNIGHT, BUT OPENING TILL 24 HOURS A DAY, SEVEN DAYS A WEEK.

LOOKS LIKE THE MAJORITY OF THESE ARE CLOSED BY MIDNIGHT.

YEAH, 11 NINE [INAUDIBLE] SO, ALL OPEN.

CAN WE. SO IS EVERYBODY GOOD WITH GETTING YOU? CAN YOU GUYS KIND OF COME BACK TO US WITH THAT.

AND THEN WE WANT TO DO THAT AS A.

DO WE DO AS A CASE, OR DO YOU WANT IT AS A DISCUSSION, A WORKSHOP? I DON'T WANT TO WORKSHOP IT AGAIN UNLESS WE HAVE TO.

I MEAN, I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT IT AGAIN.

CAN WE GET SAMPLES OF ALL THE VAPES AND THE FLAVORS? YEAH. BUT WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE FOR US TO GET THAT AND HAVE IT AS A CASE AND THEN YOU COULD DISCUSS IT, AND THAT'S WHAT I'M THINKING.

AND THAT WAY WE COULD TAKE ACTION ON IT WHEN IT'S THERE AND WE'RE IT'S NOT A DISCUSSION ITEM.

IT'S AN AGENDA ITEM. SO THAT WOULD BE MY PREFERENCE.

IS EVERYBODY OKAY WITH THAT.

YES. OKAY JOHN? SOUNDS GREAT. OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. BROADWAY, YOU GOT TEN MINUTES.

[4.A. Discussion Of Direction From City Council To The Planning Commission Regarding Permitted Uses And Design Standards For Broadway. (Staff)]

I DO WANT TO PASS THAT OUT.

SO, CATHERINE, I KNOW WE'RE VERY LIMITED ON TIME.

AND WHAT IF WE COULD? YOU GAVE US A GREAT HISTORY LESSON THE LAST TIME.

I GOT A LOT OF NIGHT READING ON THE LAST DEAL YOU SENT ME.

BUT JOHN COUNCILMAN LISTOWSKI, CAN YOU GIVE US KIND OF A LITTLE IDEA OF A DIRECTION YOU'RE WANTING US TO GO WITH? THIS IS WE'RE MOVING FORWARD.

I'M, I THINK I MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, SOME STUFF IN THE PAST WHERE, YOU KNOW WE'VE SEEN NEW DEVELOPMENT IN PARTICULAR.

HAVE TO FOLLOW REGULATIONS THAT IN MY MIND.

DIDN'T. COME OUT TO A GREAT PRODUCT AT THE END OF THE DAY.

YOU KNOW, I'VE TALKED ABOUT THE, JACK IN THE BOX, YOU KNOW, AND THE MCDONALD'S, AS OPPOSED TO THE TACO BELL.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD A WHOLE LOT OF CONTROVERSY OVER THE DOMINO'S, AND SO I THINK THERE ARE AREAS OF BROADWAY THAT DESERVE EXTRA SCRUTINY.

AND PROBABLY WE SHOULD EXPAND SOME OF THOSE REGULATIONS, TO INCLUDE SOME AREAS THAT DON'T HAVE AS TIGHT OF CONTROL.

BUT THERE ARE AREAS THAT WE NEED TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO SOME DIFFERENT THINGS ON, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO NEW DEVELOPMENT. SO IN LOOKING AT THIS, IT APPEARS THAT OVER THIS HAS NOT BEEN THE FIRST TIME THIS HAS BEEN TACKLED.

BUT IT DOES APPEAR TO ME, AND THIS MAKES A LITTLE BIT OF A SENSE, IS THAT THEY KIND OF TOOK IT, YOU KNOW, BY BASICALLY BY TEN BLOCK SECTIONS, KIND OF AT A TIME.

THERE WAS ONE OF THOSE THAT THEY DID THAT FOR SURE AND KIND OF PUT THOSE REGULATIONS IN PLACE, OKAY, WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS AND THIS TEN BLOCK SECTION AND IT KIND OF, YOU KNOW, KIND OF MUSHROOMED OUT, SO TO SPEAK.

IT'S THAT KIND OF A DIRECT.

AND LET'S JUST SAY THAT 25TH STREET IS THE EPICENTER GOING LIKE OUT.

SO OBVIOUSLY AS YOU GO FURTHER EAST, YOU KNOW, MOST OF THAT'S GOT DEFINITELY HAS A RESIDENTIAL AND HISTORICAL FLAVOR TO IT AND HIGHLY RESTRICTED.

YEAH. AND HIGHLY RESTRICTED.

AND IT'S KIND OF LIKE IS THAT KIND OF WHERE WE WANT TO KIND OF I MEAN, I THINK THAT FROM 20 JUST FROM MY WHAT I'VE TALKED TO PEOPLE ABOUT AND MY PERSONAL OPINION IS THAT PROBABLY FROM 25TH STREET TO, YOU KNOW 39TH, 37TH PROBABLY NEEDS SOME ADDITIONAL REGULATION.

AND THEN FROM THAT POINT TO, YOU KNOW, 61ST STREET NEEDS TO BE

[00:40:01]

ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS FROM ANY GUYS ON WHERE WE'RE GOING WITH THIS/ THAT HELPS ME JOHN.

THANKS A LOT. SORRY, CATHERINE, I KNOW YOU HAD A LONG PRESENTATION.

I JUST. OH THAT'S FINE, I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE AT LEAST SAW LOOKED AT THIS LAND USE TABLE.

SO THE COUNCIL WOULD LIKE THE COMMISSION TO LOOK AT THE DESIGN STANDARDS, BUT ALSO THE PERMITTED USES.

AND SO I PUT TOGETHER THIS LIST OF WHAT IS PERMITTED ON BROADWAY, WHICH IS THE TABLE THAT HAS THE COLORS ON IT.

SO THIS PAGE WILL TELL YOU THE USES THAT ARE ALLOWED ON BROADWAY, EITHER BY RIGHT OR WITH SOME LIMITATIONS.

BUT THE LIMITATIONS DON'T RESTRICT THEM FROM THEIR LOCATION ALONG BROADWAY AND THEN THIS THE OTHER PAGE WITHOUT THE COLORS ARE THINGS THAT ARE NOT PERMITTED ON BROADWAY.

AND THOSE ARE DIVIDED INTO A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT SECTIONS.

THAT WHY THEY'RE NOT PERMITTED.

SO THEY'RE NOT PERMITTED BECAUSE THERE'S A LIMITED USE THAT DOESN'T ALLOW PROXIMITY TO RESIDENTIAL, AND THERE'S ALMOST ALWAYS PROXIMITY TO RESIDENTIAL ALONG BROADWAY AND THEN, NOT ALLOWED FOR VARIOUS REASONS THAT ARE LISTED FOR YOU AND THEN USES THAT REQUIRE A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT.

SO THESE AREN'T NECESSARILY NOT ALLOWED BUT DESERVE A LEVEL OF SCRUTINY, FROM COUNCIL, THE COMMISSION AND COUNCIL, WHAT I'VE DONE ON THE LIST OF USES THAT ARE ALLOWED IS I BOLDED SOME THAT I THOUGHT PROBABLY COULD USE SOME DISCUSSION.

SO I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT THE COMMISSION LOOK THROUGH THE LIST OF THINGS THAT ARE PERMITTED AND THINK ABOUT, DO WE WANT TO SEE THESE THINGS ON BROADWAY? SO JUST TO GIVE US A JUMPING OFF POINT WHEN WE GET TO TALKING ABOUT IT, I DID BOLD THE ONES THAT I THOUGHT FROM A STAFF PERSPECTIVE MIGHT NEED SOME REVIEW.

OKAY. ANY QUESTIONS? [INAUDIBLE] SEE. SO THAT'S WHY I BOLDED IT, BECAUSE I THOUGHT, WELL, THAT'S A CONFLICT.

IF WE'RE SAYING NO TO THIS, WAS IT SERVICE BUT YES TO SALES, THAT SEEMS. YEAH, LIKE THEY SHOULD BE TREATED THE SAME.

I WOULD PROBABLY BOLD.

PAWNSHOP. PAWNSHOP? I THOUGHT ABOUT PAWNSHOP.

A SHOOTING RANGE.

RIGHT. OH, WE NEED ONE OF THOSE.

SHOOTING RANGES ARE VERY STRICTLY REGULATED BY THE STATE.

WE HAD TO MAKE SOME CHANGES NOT TOO LONG AGO.

PAWNSHOPS A [INAUDIBLE] TRUE.

THAT'S TRUE TOO. I DON'T DOUBT IT.

SO, CATHERINE, ON THE, ONE OF THE ITEMS THAT YOU SENT TO US VIA EMAIL WERE THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM VISION GALVESTON THAT HAD ALL THESE THINGS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE LIKE WHAT? WHICH ONE DO YOU LIKE BETTER? ONE, 2 OR 3.

SO THAT'S NOTHING THE CITY HAS ACTED ON? NO, THAT'S NOT AND I'M JUST PROVIDING THAT BECAUSE IT'S THE LAST DOCUMENT THAT WAS DONE REGARDING BROADWAY.

AND IT HAS A LOT OF GOOD STUFF IN IT AND IS YOU KNOW, REALLY WELL DONE.

THAT WAS DONE BY THE BROADWAY, AD HOC COMMITTEE, THE LAST OF THE MANY BROADWAY COMMITTEES, WHICH SUNSETTED IN 2018.

I THINK THAT PLAN WAS NOT ADOPTED.

SO IT'S BEING PROVIDED FOR YOUR INFORMATION, BUT IT WAS NEVER ADOPTED BY COUNCIL.

SO AGAIN, WE'RE OPERATING UNDER 2016 RULES.

WELL, 20. YEAH, 2015 IS WHEN WE ADOPTED LDR AND THEN WE ADOPTED SOME NEW STANDARDS, FOR BROADWAY LATER ON IN 15.

OKAY. THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT. SO OBVIOUSLY WE'RE GOING TO BE WORKSHOPPING THIS AGAIN.

SO WHAT'S OUR.

YEAH. SO OUR THE DIRECTION I'VE GOT HERE IS THAT WE WILL BRING BACK THE VAPE STORES IN THE FORM OF A CASE, THAT WILL BE REVIEWED BY THE COMMISSION AT OUR NEXT REGULAR MEETING. AND THEN WE WILL CONTINUE WITH THE BROADWAY DESIGN STANDARDS AND LAND USE DISCUSSION.

IN THE WORKSHOP SETTING, CAN YOU SEND US YOUR PRESENTATION TOO.

SURE CAN.

GLAD WE'VE GOT ONE THING OFF THE LIST, SO WELL DONE.

WHAT'S THAT? I SAID WE GOT ONE THING OFF THE LIST.

SO WELL DONE. WELL, ALMOST.

WELL, WE'VE MOVED IT ONTO ITS NEXT STAGE IN LIFE.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

ANYTHING ELSE? OKAY. THEN WE WILL ADJOURN THE WORKSHOP AND GET BACK TOGETHER HERE IN ABOUT FIVE MINUTES.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.