[00:00:02] I'M HERE. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, JOHN. [1. Call Meeting To Order] SO IT IS 3:40 ON AUGUST THE 8TH. WE'RE GOING TO GET STARTED WITH THE GALVESTON PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, AND WE'RE GOING TO CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER. WE HAVE A QUORUM. WE ALSO HAVE COMMISSIONER HILL, WHO IS PRESENT BY ZOOM. [3. Conflict Of Interest] ARE THERE ANY CONFLICTS OF INTEREST? NOTING NONE. [4. Approval Of Minutes] ARE THERE ANY CHANGES, AMENDMENTS OR COMMENTS REGARDING THE MINUTES? BEING NONE. WE'LL APPROVE THE MINUTES AS PRESENTED. IS THERE ANYONE IN THE PUBLIC WHO WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT ON A NON AGENDA ITEM? IF YOU HAVE A COMMENT ON NON AGENDA ITEM. BEING NONE. WE'LL MOVE ON TO OUR FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA, WHICH IS A PUBLIC HEARING FOR A DUNE MITIGATION HUNTER. [6.A.1. 23BF-027 (19611 Shores Drive) Notice Of Mitigation For Disturbance Of Dunes And Vegetation. Property Is Legally Described As Abstract 121 Hall & Jones Survey, Lot 13 (13-1), The Dunes Of West Beach Replat, A Subdivision In The City And County Of Galveston, Texas. Applicant: Ruben Elizondo, Trademark Construction Property Owner: Chris Gray, Camelise Properties, LLC] YOU'RE UP. MIKE. MIKE. THERE WE GO. ALL RIGHT. GOOD AFTERNOON, PLANNING COMMISSIONERS. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. SO WHAT I HAVE FOR YOU IS CASE 23 BF 027 AT 19611 SHORES DRIVE. THIS IS A NOTICE OF MITIGATION FOR DISTURBANCE OF DUNES AND DUNE VEGETATION. THE PROPERTY IS LEGALLY DESCRIBED AS ABSTRACT. 121 HOLLAND JONES SURVEY LOT 1313 DASH ONE THE DUNES OF WEST BEACH PLOT A SUBDIVISION THE CITY AND COUNTY OF GALVESTON, TEXAS. THE SUBJECT SITE IS LOCATED IN THE DUNES OF WEST BEACH SUBDIVISION. SINGLE FAMILY DWELLINGS ARE LOCATED TO THE EAST AND WEST OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. A BEACH AND DUNE SYSTEM ARE LOCATED TO THE SOUTH OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. AND ACCORDING TO THE BUREAU OF ECONOMIC GEOLOGY, THE AREA IS STABLE. STAFF HAS PREPARED PHOTOS OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY FOR YOUR VIEWING. FIRST, WE HAVE A FIRM AND BIG MAP SHOWING THE DISTANCE OF THE STRUCTURE FROM THE DUNE SYSTEM AND ITS POSITION RELATIVE TO ADJACENT PROPERTIES. ON THE NEXT SLIDE IS THE PROPERTY SURVEY. THE RIGHT SIDE IS ZOOMED IN TO BETTER SHOW FEATURES WITHIN THE SURVEY. I KNOW THAT'S KIND OF MAYBE A LITTLE BIT MORE DIFFICULT TO STILL READ IT ON THE SCREEN, BUT THE WALK OVER IS PROPOSED AND PRIOR TO THE TEN FOOT SEAWARD LIMIT AND THE TOTAL LENGTH IS APPROXIMATELY 182FT. ON THE FOLLOWING SLIDE, WE HAVE THE PROPOSED PROJECT DRAWING. THE PROPOSED WALKOVER WILL BE FOUR FEET WIDE AND FOUR FEET TALL OVER THE CREST OF THE DUNES. THE NEXT SLIDE IS AN AERIAL VIEW OF THE PROPERTY WITH THE PROPOSED WALKOVER ON THE THREE GREEN CIRCLES ARE THE AREA INTENDED FOR THE RELOCATION AND PLANTING OF DISTURBED VEGETATION. THIS WAS DONE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE TEXAS ADMINISTRATIVE CODE AND OUR DUNE PROTECTION AND BEACH ACCESS PLAN. THE LOCATIONS WERE CHOSEN FROM THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE OWNER'S MITIGATION PLAN. ON THE NEXT SLIDE. THE NEXT SLIDE IS THE SAME, BUT FROM A SURVEY OVERLAY VIEW, THE DISTURBANCE OF DUNE AND DUNE VEGETATION IS BEING MITIGATED FOR EIGHT SQUARE FEET BROKEN UP BETWEEN THE THREE CIRCLES AND TO CLOSE OUT. WE HAVE FOUR SLIDES, ONE SHOWING THE VIEW FROM THE SOUTH. THE RED LINE IS KIND OF THE APPROXIMATE LOCATION OF WHERE THE WALKOVER IS GOING TO BE. AND THE NEXT ONE THE SAME THING, BUT FROM THE BEACH SIDE, LOOKING NORTH TOWARDS THE PROPERTY. NEXT, WE HAVE JUST A LITTLE VIEW FROM THE NEIGHBORS. WALK OVER LOOKING AT SOME OF THE VEGETATION THAT'S THERE. WE HAVE AN ORANGE FLAG KIND OF INDICATING APPROXIMATE LOCATION OF WHERE THE WALKOVER IS GOING TO BE. AND THEN LASTLY, WE JUST HAVE ANOTHER UNINHIBITED VIEW OF OF THE APPROXIMATE AREA. THIS CONCLUDES STAFF'S REPORT, AND I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? I HAVE ONE. SO THIS IS FOR EIGHT SQUARE FEET, CORRECT? THAT'S PROBABLY AN AREA MAYBE HALF THE SIZE OF THAT DESK YOU'RE SITTING AT. CORRECT. THIS SEEMS A BIT ONEROUS TO ME TO MAKE SOMEBODY GO THROUGH THIS MUCH. I MEAN, THIS IS COSTING THEM NOT JUST THE TIME, BUT THE MONEY TO DO ALL THIS. IS THIS JUST WHAT WE HAVE TO DO? YES. DICTATED BY THE GLOW IN OUR OWN BEACH ACCESS PLAN. OKAY. SO IT'S BOTH THE GLOW AND IT'S ALSO A CITY DEAL. OKAY. I JUST ONE RATIO. OKAY. IT'S A PRETTY SMALL. I UNDERSTAND. SO. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THAT'S ALL I HAD. WE'LL OPEN THIS TO PUBLIC HEARING AT 345. IS THERE ANYONE HERE LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM? SEEING NONE. WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. AND THERE'S NO THERE'S NOT AN ACTION ITEM. CORRECT. ALL RIGHT. IS THIS WHERE I WOULD TALK ABOUT THE ONE THAT I. OH, SURE. YEAH. OKAY. HUNTER DOES HAVE SOME INFORMATION TO PROVIDE YOU ALL ABOUT DOING MITIGATION. OKAY, COOL. YEAH, I MEAN, IT JUST LOOKS KIND OF WEIRD. I KNOW PRETTY MUCH EVERYBODY. [00:05:03] MOST. MOST PEOPLE ARE THESE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. YOU. WE HAVE TO. AND THEN. SO I KNOW IT'S A LITTLE SHORT NOTICE, BUT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT ME AND KYLE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON. I KNOW THAT THE MITIGATION SEQUENCE IS SOMETIMES CONFUSING, SOMETIMES HARD TO UNDERSTAND, BUT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'RE TRYING TO DEVELOP THAT WE CAN GIVE TO AN APPLICANT WHEN THEY PUT IN FOR A PROJECT. IF WE DETERMINE THAT MITIGATION IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO BE REQUIRED OF THEM, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'RE GOING TO GIVE TO THE APPLICANT SO THAT WE CAN BETTER GO THROUGH THE MITIGATION SEQUENCE WITH THEM. PRIOR TO WE TYPICALLY HAVE DONE THIS IN CONJUNCTION WITH CONSULTANTS THAT THEY MAY HAVE OR WITH THE CONTRACTOR THAT THEY MAY HAVE GOING THROUGH THESE INDIVIDUALLY. BUT WE'RE TRYING TO HAVE A BETTER PROCESS OF LISTING THESE OUT AND HAVING THEM IN A PLAIN READABLE FORM FOR YOU GUYS TO SEE. SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'RE STILL IN THE WORKS WITH. THIS IS KIND OF JUST A AN EASY TEMPLATE THAT WE'VE COME TOGETHER WITH, PROBABLY SOME FORMATTING TO COME, BUT THIS IS JUST SOMETHING THAT WE KIND OF WANTED TO PUT IN FRONT OF YOU GUYS. SO THE MITIGATION SEQUENCE, THE BEGINNING OF IT IS JUST WHAT WE HAVE FROM OUR PLAN HAVING THE RATIO 1 TO 1. SO WHEN WE DETERMINE THAT A MITIGATION IS REQUIRED, WE'LL THEN GIVE THIS TO THEM AND THEN GO INTO FURTHER DEPTH ON WHAT THE MITIGATION SEQUENCE IS AND WHAT THEY NEED TO DO. SO WITH THAT FIRST STEP, WE TRY OUR BEST TO AVOID, OF COURSE, THE IMPACT IF WE CAN, DEPENDING ON LOCATIONS. YOU MIGHT HAVE AREAS OF THE PROPERTY THAT ARE LESS VEGETATED OR MORE VEGETATED, SOMETHING THAT WE CAN TALK WITH CONSULTANTS, CONTRACTORS OR THE HOMEOWNER IS, HEY, CAN WE MOVE THIS 30FT TO THE LEFT, 30FT TO THE WEST? WE MIGHT HAVE A BETTER ODDS OF NOT IMPACTING AS MUCH VEGETATION AND NOT HAVING AS LARGE OF A MITIGATION AREA. SO EIGHT SQUARE FEET I KNOW IS REALLY SMALL, BUT SOME OF THE ONES THAT WE SEE ARE IN A HIGHLY VEGETATED AREA COULD BE 200FT². AND SOMETIMES THOSE ARE A LOT MORE A LOT HARDER TO MANAGE. SO WE WANT TO GO OVER THAT WITH THEM TO AVOID THE IMPACTS IF WE CAN. WE WANT TO MINIMIZE. SO WORKING WITH CONSULTANTS, WORKING WITH THE OWNERS, WE WANT TO SET UP, WHICH WE'RE SUPPOSED TO ANYWAYS, FIVE FOOT BUFFER ZONES WITHIN THE WORK AREA. SO THAT WAY WE'RE NOT ENCROACHING ON ANY OTHER VEGETATION WITHIN THAT WORK AREA. SO PUTTING UP ROPE AND BOLLARD LINES, HAVING THAT FIVE FOOT RADIUS. SOME SOME PROJECTS IN THE PAST HAVE EVEN GONE TO THE EXTENT OF JUST HAVING ONE FIVE FOOT CORRIDOR ON ONE SIDE. OH, SORRY. OKAY. GO AHEAD, JEFFREY. ARE WE ON OUR AGENDA ITEM? YES. HAVE WE? HAVE WE LEFT OUR AGENDA? WELL, THERE WAS AN ITEM REGARDING DUNE MITIGATION ON THE AGENDA, SO WE FELT LIKE THIS WAS A RELATED TOPIC. IF. ARE YOU OKAY WITH THAT, DONNA? YEAH. OKAY. SEEMS LIKE WE'VE LEFT A PUBLIC HEARING AND GONE INTO A GENERAL. UM. A GENERAL PROCEDURAL ITEM. I JUST THOUGHT I'D ASK. OKAY. THANKS. WELL, GOOD. OKAY, SO GOING OFF OF NUMBER TWO, MINIMIZE. WHEN WE LOOK INTO THAT ROPE AND BOLLARDS FIVE FOOT ACROSS, SOMETIMES WE'LL GO EVEN SHORTER THAN THAT. JUST DEPENDS ON ON THE NEED OF THE PROJECT AND THE CONSTRAINTS THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE ON THE PROPERTY. I'M TAKING THOSE INTO ACCOUNT WHEN BOTH AVOID AND MINIMIZE HAVE BEEN TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT. WE THEN GO TO RECTIFY. IF WE'VE COME INTO AN AREA WHERE WE KNOW THAT THE MITIGATION IS GOING TO OCCUR, WE WANT TO HAVE A PLAN ON HOW MANY SQUARE FOOTAGE. SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE TAKE INTO ACCOUNT AND GIVE TO THE GLOW OF AN EXACT SQUARE FOOTAGE. SO THAT WAY WHEN THEY APPLY WITHIN THEIR THREE YEAR TIME SPAN TO BE RELINQUISHED FROM THEIR MITIGATION, WE KNOW HOW MUCH THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR. SO I ACTUALLY GO OUT AND I'LL TAKE A ROLLING MEASURING TAPE AND DO KIND OF LIKE A VEGETATION OVERLAY OF DID IT GROW BACK THE WAY IT DID, TAKING PHOTOS FROM WHAT WAS SUBMITTED PRIOR TO MITIGATION AND WHAT WAS DONE AFTERWARDS. SO WE HAVE A GOOD REFERENCE OF THEIR MITIGATION AND THEN COMPENSATE IF IN THE EVENT THAT. IF IN THE EVENT THAT MITIGATION CAN OCCUR, THEY CAN COMPENSATE FOR THAT IN DIFFERENT WAYS, PAYING FOR WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE COST OF MITIGATION RELATIVE TO AND COMPENSATION COULD ALSO BE IN THE SENSE OF ANOTHER, JUST A MITIGATION IN ITSELF. AND SO THAT'S KIND OF ALL I HAVE. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S JUST KIND OF WORKING ON AND HOPEFULLY THIS WILL BE BETTER FOR APPLICANTS WHEN WE REVIEW THEM AND WE'RE GOING THROUGH THIS PROCESS. [00:10:06] SO THAT WAY WHEN WE COME TO YOU GUYS, WE HAVE A BROADER AND BETTER IDEA OF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. VERY GOOD. THANK YOU, HUNTER. ALL RIGHT. LET'S MOVE ON TO DISCUSSION ITEMS. [7.A. Pre-2015 Open Space Requirements Discussion (Walla)] WE GOT ITEM A, WHICH YOU GUYS HAVE A LITTLE SHOW FOR US FOR OUR OPEN SPACE DISCUSSION, A VERY EXCITING POWERPOINT AND ALSO A VERY EXCITING HANDOUT. GOOD. OKAY, SO JUST A LITTLE BACKGROUND ON THIS ITEM. WE STARTED TO TALK ABOUT IT ABOUT WEDNESDAY, WEST END DENSITY AT A WORKSHOP A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO, AND WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT SINCE THEN. SO AT THAT WORKSHOP, COMMISSIONER WALLA ASKED ABOUT DENSITY REQUIREMENTS THAT EXIST TODAY IN THE LDR. AND SO THOSE ARE IN YOUR ON THE SCREEN NOW. SO THERE ARE SOME OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENTS IN THE TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT ZONING DISTRICT AND ALSO IN THE HEIGHTENED DENSITY DEVELOPMENT ZONE. BUT THOSE ARE FAIRLY RESTRICTED AREAS GEOGRAPHICALLY. SO IN GENERAL, ON THE WEST END THERE ARE OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENTS, DENSITY REQUIREMENTS OF AN OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENT OF 20% MINIMUM USABLE OPEN SPACE. BUT THAT'S ONLY FOR DEVELOPMENTS OF 25 ACRES AND WE JUST DON'T SEE THAT. SO ALSO ON THE SCREEN IS A LIST OF THE PRELIMINARY PLOTS FROM 2018 TO CURRENT. AND YOU CAN SEE WE THE CLOSEST WE'VE GOTTEN TO 25 ACRES IS 10.3. SO WE'VE JUST NOT BEEN ABLE TO TO USE THIS REQUIREMENT BECAUSE OF THAT THAT ACREAGE. AND THEN AT OUR LAST DISCUSSION, THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION OF WHAT WERE THE DENSITY STANDARDS BEFORE THE ELDERS. THE ELDERS WERE ADOPTED IN 2015. BEFORE THAT, WE HAD THE ZONING STANDARDS AND THEN ALSO THE 2001 COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. AND I DON'T KNOW WHY THE DENSITY STANDARDS WERE HOUSED IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN RATHER THAN IN THE ZONING REQUIREMENTS, AND WHICH IT'S NOT HOW YOU TYPICALLY DO YOUR ZONING REQUIREMENTS. SO IN 2015, WE TOOK THAT AWAY. THOSE THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WE ADOPTED A NEW ONE, WE ADOPTED THE NEW ELDERS. SO THOSE STANDARDS WENT WENT AWAY UNTIL 2018 WHEN THEY WERE PUT BACK INTO THE LDR. SO THIS IS A CHART THAT SHOWS WHAT THE STANDARDS WERE BEFORE THE ELDERS. SO THESE ARE THE STANDARDS FROM THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. AND THEN THAT'S WHAT YOUR HANDOUT IS. THAT IS FROM THE THIS IS THE TEXT FROM THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. SO BEFORE WE HAD THE LDR, BEFORE THE 2015. YEAH, RIGHT. THIS IS THE 2001. THIS IS THE 2001. IS THAT THE CURRENT COMP PLAN. NO, NO, NO. 2011 AREN'T WE. YEAH. OKAY. SO THESE HAVE BEEN SUPERSEDED BY, BY WHAT WE HAVE NOW. I'M FOLLOWING YOU. YEAH. SO THESE ARE THE STANDARDS THAT WERE IN PLACE BEFORE 2015. THEY ARE HAVE GONE AWAY. AND WHAT WE HAVE IS JUST THE 20% MINIMUM FOR 25 ACRES. I'VE GOT SOMEWHAT BECAUSE I'M JUST KIND OF READING THROUGH THIS IS THERE WOULD A RETENTION POND BE A GREEN SPACE? I THINK THE ANSWER IS YES. YES. OKAY. THERE IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, THE OLD STUFF, YES, IT WAS PRETTY DETAILED ABOUT WHAT YOU COULD COUNT TOWARDS YOUR OPEN SPACE AND WHAT YOU COULDN'T. OKAY. I WAS JUST AND THIS IS SIMILAR BUT DIFFERENT TO WHAT IS HAPPENING SO THAT WITH THE COUNTY LAND JUST NORTH OF BROADWAY, THAT IS OBVIOUSLY EAST OF 103RD, BUT THEY'RE SAYING THAT THAT THAT A PORTION OF THAT HAS TO BE DEDICATED TO FLOOD MITIGATION. BUT IS THAT THE SAME OR THE DETENTION? AND SO THOSE ARE DIFFERENT REGULATIONS. OKAY. THOSE ARE DIFFERENT THROUGH THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT. OKAY. RELATED TO DRAINAGE. OKAY. OKAY. SO ANYWAYS, I'LL LET YOU KEEP GOING. I'LL ASK MY QUESTION AT THE END. KEEP GOING. THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH IT. I ALSO DID SOME RESEARCH INTO HEIGHTS. HEIGHT IS ALSO RELATED TO DENSITY, AND I KNOW THAT COMMISSIONER HUMPHREY HAD SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS. SO THIS MAP SHOWS THE WEST END AND THE HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS. SO EVERYTHING THAT'S GREEN IS LIMITED TO FIVE 50FT OF HEIGHT. SO THOSE ARE THINGS THAT ARE ZONED RESIDENTIAL FOR THE MOST PART. AND THEN ALSO COMMERCIAL CARRIES A HEIGHT RESTRICTION OF 50FT. [00:15:02] THE LIGHTER GREEN IS T N T, AND THOSE CAN GO UP TO 60 100FT. FOR MULTIFAMILY, 100FT. WE START GETTING INTO THE YELLOWS. 100FT IS MULTIFAMILY AND 120 IS RESURRECT. AND THEN THERE ARE SOME AREAS ON THE WEST END THAT ARE ZONED FOR HEAVY INDUSTRIAL. I MEAN INDUSTRIAL USE LIKE AT THE AIRPORT AND ONE LITTLE POCKET, TWO LITTLE POCKETS KIND OF IN THE MIDDLE THAT ARE INDUSTRIAL AND THERE'S NO MAXIMUM THERE. AND I WILL ALSO ADD THAT THE THAT THE THIS IS WHAT OUR REGULATORY FRAMEWORK IS. BUT THE FAA HAS THEIR OWN SET OF MAXIMUMS IN AND AROUND AN AIRPORT. SO THAT ALSO, OF COURSE, SUPERSEDES THE REGULATIONS THAT WE HAVE. SO IT'D BE THE MOST ONEROUS OF THE TWO. AND THEN A PORTION OF THE WEST END IS WITHIN THE HEIGHTENED DENSITY DEVELOPMENT ZONE. AND SO THERE THE UNDERLYING ZONING CATEGORIES DON'T REGULATE HEIGHT IN THE DC, IT'S REGULATED BY THOSE REGULATIONS. AND SO THOUGH THE DC ALLOWS FOR A MID-RISE, WHICH IS A MAX OF EIGHT STORIES OR 105FT, IF YOU HAVE TWO ACRES OR MORE, AND THEN IF YOU DON'T HAVE TWO ACRES, THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT IS FIVE STORIES OR 70FT. SO THAT'S THE INFORMATION THAT WE HAD TO PRESENT TO YOU TODAY. OKAY. COMMISSIONER HUMPHREYS, YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? WELL, OKAY. SO THE DESIGNATION OF THE DASHES THAT ARE IN THE IN THE BOOK, HDD, HD, WHATEVER THE DENSITY ZONE, DASH SIX, SEVEN, ALL THE DIFFERENT NUMERICAL DESIGNATIONS ARE NOT SHOWING A DIFFERENCE IN HEIGHT REGULATION THAT IS PREDICATED ON THIS CHART RIGHT HERE. WELL, NO, THE HDC INDEPENDENTLY REGULATES HEIGHT. OKAY. AND IT'S IT'S SET TO YOUR LOT SIZE. SO IF YOU HAVE TWO ACRES, YOU CAN GO UP TO A MID-RISE, WHICH IS EIGHT. OH, IF YOU IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE TWO ACRES, THEN THE CAP IS FIVE. OKAY. AND THAT. THE HDD IS STOPPED ON THE WEST END IN THERE AND INTO THAT. WHAT STREET IS THAT? YEAH. I'M LOOKING HERE AT 11 MILE ROAD. MM. AND THEN FROM THE END OF THE SEA WALL TAKES IN 305 AND BOTH IN SOUTH OF STEWART TO JUST PASS SETTEGAST ON STEWART. AND THEN FROM THERE, FROM THE 11 MILE ROAD OUT, THEN IT'S BASED UPON THE OTHER MAP, BASED ON THE BASE ZONING. OKAY. SO WE HAVE BASE ZONING AND HDS. AND HDS SUPERSEDES BASE ZONING. CORRECT OVERLAY AN OVERLAY, AS IT WERE. OKAY. AND THE REASON WAS THEY'RE NOT THE REASON WE DON'T SEE AN H D H DOUBLE D ZONING OUT TO THE FURTHER WEST THAN 11 MILE IS BECAUSE IT'S NOT A PARENT THAT IT'S NEEDED IS THERE. HTC WAS ESTABLISHED IN 2008 AND AT THAT TIME THERE WAS A LOT OF CONCERN ABOUT UNRESTRICTED HEIGHTS ON SEAWALL. AND SO AND THERE WAS A PROPOSAL FOR A LARGE A TALL BUILDING GENERALLY IN THIS AREA. AND SO THE STUDY AREA WAS THE FOCUS WAS LIMITED SEAWALL. AND YEAH, SO IT WAS A LIMITED AREA. OKAY. AND I KNOW WE HAVE A LOT OF RESIDENTIAL AREAS AS OF THIS DATE, BUT I'VE DONE SOME RESEARCH ON PLACES WHERE I USED TO WANDER WHEN I WAS YOUNG, LIKE DESTIN, FLORIDA, GULF SHORES, ALABAMA, PANAMA CITY, FLORIDA. A LOT OF SIMILARITIES HERE. AND THAT'S THAT'S WHY I WAS KIND OF WANTING TO SEE IF MAYBE WE NEED TO KIND OF REVISIT AND REDO MAYBE OR MAYBE EXTEND THE HDD ZONE OUT FURTHER WEST 50 YEARS FROM NOW, 30 YEARS FROM NOW, THE APPEARANCE COULD CHANGE DRASTICALLY. ALL IT TAKES IS FOR JUST SOME RESIDENCES TO BE ABANDONED OR BE SOLD, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU'VE GOT THE ACREAGE AVAILABLE TO PUT SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT LARGER ON THAT WEST END. AND I WOULD REALLY HATE TO SEE IT GET TO THAT POINT. NOW, I DON'T KNOW, YOU ALL MAY AGREE WITH ME OR NOT, BUT I JUST IT WAS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT KIND OF KIND OF CAME TO MIND TO ME WHEN I [00:20:05] WAS TALKING TO A RELATIVE. AND WE WERE REMEMBERING ABOUT BEING DOWN THERE. AND SHE'S GOT A PLACE DOWN THERE IN GULF SHORES NOW, AND SHE GOES, ALL IT IS, IS HIGH RISES ALL UP AND DOWN THE COAST. I JUST DON'T WANT TO SEE THAT HAPPEN HERE. I WILL SAY THAT WE DID AN ANALYSIS HERE A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO ABOUT THE ZONING OUT FURTHER WEST, THE ACTUAL BASE ZONING, AND ESPECIALLY WITHIN THE BEACHFRONT PORTIONS, THERE'S REALLY VERY LITTLE THERE'S A COUPLE OF COMMERCIAL TRACKS, SMALL ONES. THERE'S 1 OR 2 RESURRECT ZONES. BUT FOR THE FOR THE GREAT LION'S SHARE OF IT, IT'S R1, WHICH OF COURSE WOULDN'T ALLOW THAT. IT'D HAVE TO COME BACK TO YOU ALL AND CITY COUNCIL. TO TO. TO HAVE SOME KIND. DEVIATION FROM OUR REQUIREMENTS OR A PUTT OR WHAT HAVE YOU. A PUTT WOULD ALLEVIATE ALLEVIATE THAT. THEN A PUTT WOULD BE GIVE THEM THE ABILITY TO INCREASE THE HEIGHT APPROVED BY THE CITY. IT JUST ANYTHING ALLOWED BY. RIGHT. SO THERE'S SOME CONTROL THERE. BUT I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT. YEAH. WELL, THERE'S A LOT OF REASONS I'M CONCERNED ABOUT DOING SOMETHING THAT INCREASES THE DENSITY LIKE THAT BECAUSE I GET THE FEELING LIKE THERE'S A THERE MAY BE A PUSH TO POPULATE AND AND INCREASE THE TAX ROLLS A LITTLE BIT MORE HERE OF LATE. AND I DON'T MIND INCREASING THE TAX ROLLS BUT I DON'T WANT TO SEE IT DONE VERTICALLY. I'D RATHER SEE IT DONE HORIZONTALLY AND THEN LET'S LIVE WITHIN OUR BUDGETS. SO IT IS POSSIBLE WE COULD PUT THE HDD ZONE FURTHER WEST BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION OR PLANNING COMMISSION TO REQUEST TO THE COUNCIL. IS THAT CORRECT? OH, IN GENERAL, YEAH. YEAH. YOU GUYS CAN PROMULGATE RECOMMENDATIONS ON YOUR OWN OR AS DIRECTED BY COUNCIL OR, YOU KNOW, PER PER SUGGESTION OF STAFF, WHAT YOU KNOW, THERE'S WAYS TO DO THIS, UH, BUT IT'D HAVE TO STEP THROUGH THE PROCESS. OKAY. NOT BEING A BIG ADVOCATE OR FAN OF GOVERNMENTAL PROCESSING OR KNOWLEDGE OF GOVERNMENTAL PROCESSING. YEAH. SO SHOULD WE NEXT HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT AS A PLANNING COMMISSION OR SHOULD I PUT IT UP AS A VOTE OR A PROPOSAL? OR HOW SHOULD WE DO IT IN REGARDS TO TO HAVING A DISCUSSION INTO EXTENDING THE DE ZONES FURTHER TO THE WEST, TO THE WEST END? I DON'T KNOW. GIVE ME GIVE ME A GIVE ME THE I DON'T THINK HOW THAT WORKS. I DON'T THINK THAT THAT ACHIEVES YOUR GOAL. IF YOUR GOAL IS TO RESTRICT TALL BUILDINGS, AS YOU CAN SEE THAT MOST OF THE WEST END DOESN'T ALLOW FOR IT. AND LIKE TIM WAS SAYING, IT'S MOSTLY ZONED R-1. AND SO YOU CAN ONLY DO A SINGLE FAMILY HOUSE IN R-1. SO IT IS IT IS RESTRICTED. SO HDD SOUNDS LIKE IT'S MAYBE STRICTER, BUT IT ALLOWS FOR GREATER HEIGHTS. YEAH, THAT'S TRUE BECAUSE IT DOES HAVE SOME IN SOME AREAS THAT THEY WOULD. SO CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG ON THIS, I'M JUST GOING TO MAKE A STATEMENT IS THAT WHEN USED TO BE WE DIDN'T HAVE R-1 ON ALL THIS. IT WAS CALLED A GENERAL LAND USE PLAN, VERY COMPLICATED PROCESS. PLANNING COMMISSION HAD A LOT OF LEEWAY WITH GROUPS. SO THAT CHANGED. AND THEN THEIR DECISION WAS WAS TO GO AND BLANKET ALL THAT WITH R-1 NO MATTER WHAT IT WAS, INCLUDING THE WATER. SO I MEAN, THERE'S PARTS OF THAT THAT HAVE IT'S OWN FAULT. BUT WHAT THEY DID DO WHEN THEY PUT OUR REMEMBER STAN R-1 IS THE SECOND MOST RESTRICTIVE ZONING THERE IS. SO THEY WENT AND WHEN THEY LAID THAT OUT ON ALL THAT STUFF, THAT WAS KIND OF THE FIX FOR SOME OF THIS. CAN SOMEBODY GO BUILD, YOU KNOW, A HIGH RISE ON THE BEACHFRONT, ON THE ON THE WEST END? YEAH, BUT IT WOULD NOT BE AN EASY PROCESS. I MEAN, THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME TO PLANNING COMMISSION. THERE WOULD BE THE PUBLIC HEARINGS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT. THERE WOULD BE THEN NO MATTER WHAT OUR DECISION IS, THAT ALSO WOULD GO TO, YOU KNOW, CITY COUNCIL FOR THEIR APPROVAL. NOW, DO OUR DECISIONS AND THEIRS ALWAYS MATCH? [00:25:01] NO. AND THEY NEVER ARE. I MEAN, MOST YOU'D LIKE TO THINK THEY WOULD ALL THE TIME, BUT THEY'RE NOT. SO PERSONALLY, THE WAY I SEE THIS FROM MY EYES IS THAT IT'S RESTRICTIVE NOW FOR SOMEBODY TO GO. THERE ARE VERY, VERY FEW PLACES WHERE SOMEBODY OUR LAST PLANNING CASE WE HAD HERE, THAT WAS A RARE EXAMPLE WHERE THAT PROPERTY ZONED COMMERCIAL THERE IS VERY, VERY, VERY LITTLE OF THAT, THAT THAT IS AN INSTANCE OF SOMEBODY COULD BUILD A HIGH RISE THERE. BUT THAT'S EXTREMELY MATTER OF FACT. THAT'S ONE OF THE VERY FEW TRACKS THAT HAS THAT THEY COULD DO AND STOP ME WITH ANY OF THIS IF I'M WRONG. BUT YOU COULD HAVE SOMEBODY LIKE RIGHT NOW THERE'S TALK OF ANOTHER DEVELOPMENT OUT WEST AND THOSE GUYS COULD PRESENT A OVERALL DEVELOPMENT PLAN THAT COULD HAVE POTENTIALLY. HIGH RISES IN IT, BUT THEY'D HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS BECAUSE THEY ARE ONE TODAY. THE SECOND MOST RESTRICTIVE THERE IS, AND I DIDN'T THINK THAT WHAT CATHERINE SAID, EVEN IF YOU MOVE, YOU KNOW, HEIGHT AND DENSITY OUT THERE AND I'M NOT AN EXPERT AT HEIGHT AND DENSITY. JEFFREY MIGHT CHIME IN ON THIS BUT IT'S IT'S ALLOWS SOME OF THAT SO I DON'T KNOW THAT MOVING IT OUT THERE IS THE FIX I'M WILLING TO DISCUSS IT WITH ALL OF US. I'M I'M SORRY. I HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT THAT WAY. YOU GUYS HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THAT? I KNOW I AGREE WITH YOU WITH WITH THAT ONE. FIRST OF ALL, YES, R-1 IS THE SECOND MOST RESTRICTIVE. AND IN ORDER TO MOVE THAT PART OF THE PROCESS, IT WOULD TAKE A MONUMENTAL OR JUST TAKE A LONG THROUGH A PROCESS. BUT I'M JUST THINKING OF HOW. BECAUSE. YES, BECAUSE THE GOAL IS TO NOT END UP WITH A A COMPLETELY OBSTRUCTED FRONT OF HIGH RISES AND AND DENSE DEVELOPMENT ALONG YOUR FRONT BEACH. THEN YOU LOSE YOUR YOUR CHARACTER OF OF THE WEST END. BUT I DON'T KNOW, I, I SEE. WHERE R1 WOULD FIT THAT PURPOSE. AND IF WE COULD ADHERE TO THAT R1 GUIDELINES THEN THEN THAT WOULD BE. NOTHING'S GOING TO BE BULLETPROOF, STAN. YEAH. YEAH, I GUESS I WAS KIND OF LOOKING FOR SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE KIND OF, LIKE. SO. HATE TO BE THAT WAY. JEFFREY HAS SOMETHING. OH, NO, NO, NO. STAN. PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR THOUGHT. I WAS LOOKING FOR SOMETHING THAT WOULD KIND OF HELP SEAL UP THE WEST END. KIND OF PUT A BUBBLE OVER IT, LAYER IT SO THAT WE. WE DON'T HAVE A CONCERN THAT THIS WILL OCCUR 30 YEARS FROM NOW. AND THAT'S JUST WHAT I WAS THINKING. THAT'S WHY I WAS WANTING TO APPROACH THIS SUBJECT. I GET WHERE R1 ONE IS GOOD. I'M JUST KIND OF CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE. AND I THINK THAT'S PART OF PLANNING IS TRYING TO THINK ABOUT WHAT WOULD WHAT WOULD THOSE GUYS DO IN THE FUTURE AND HOW WOULD THEY WORK AROUND THE DEAL TO MAKE IT HAPPEN. THAT'S ALL. COMMISSIONER HILL. WHAT I WANTED TO SAY IS, STAN, I ABSOLUTELY APPRECIATE YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS. I THINK THAT WE TEND TO NOT DO ENOUGH OF EXACTLY THAT, THAT WE OVERLOOK THAT PART OF OUR ROLE. AND IN THIS AGENDA ITEM, AGAIN, I'M THINK I'M BEING DONNA TODAY. DONNA, COME ON, MAN. I'M LOOKING AT THE AGENDA ITEM AND THE AGENDA ITEM AND, AND I AM NOT TECH SAVVY ENOUGH TO HAVE THE AGENDA, THE AGENDA OPEN UP WHEN I'VE GOT ZOOM. BUT I THINK THE AGENDA ITEM IS ON OPEN SPACE. AND HERE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HDC, BUT. ANYWAY, WE TEND TO OVERLOOK OUR PLANNING ROLE. BUT, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE OF THINGS STAND. WE. WE DO HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE A COUNSEL WHO IS ON BOARD WITH US. AND IT SEEMS TO ME AT THIS POINT, WE HAVE A COUNSEL WHO IS NOT REALLY MELDING WITH WHAT WE MIGHT BE SEEING ON THIS COMMISSION AT THIS TIME. [00:30:03] UM, IN LOOKING AT SOME OF THESE DEVELOPMENTS, AND I WILL ALSO SAY THAT WE TENDED TO MAYBE START THINKING ABOUT. IF THERE WAS AT ONE TIME RECENTLY AND I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT THIS FROM A HISTORICAL KNOWLEDGE OF THE COMMISSION, WE EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD LIFT THE HDD FROM THE SEA WALL OUTWARD BECAUSE OF ALL THE WORKAROUNDS THAT WERE BEING DONE. RECENTLY VIA THE BUDS. SO, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME DIFFERENT WAYS TO LOOK AT THIS. SO I ABSOLUTELY APPRECIATE WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM, STAN. AND I AGREE WITH YOU THAT WE DON'T WANT TO TURN IT INTO HIGH RISE CITY. UM, YES, WE NEED TO INCREASE OUR TAX BASE. BUT YOU KNOW HOW TO DO IT IS A DIFFERENT STORY. SO. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. THAT BEING SAID, I'D LIKE TO KIND OF CIRCLE BACK TO OUR OPEN SPACE STUFF. AND AGAIN, JUST SOME COMMENTS BECAUSE WE WENT FROM SO YOU'RE SHOWING ME 2001 STUFF, WHICH WAS PRETTY RESTRICTIVE, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, ACTUALLY MADE IT EVEN MORE COMPREHENSIVE AND MORE COMPLICATED FOR SOMEBODY MAKING AN APPLICATION BECAUSE IT WASN'T IN THE ZONING STANDARDS. SO THAT THAT MADE THAT EVEN WORSE. SO AND PROBABLY EVEN MORE RESTRICTIVE. SO THEN WE MOVED TO THE 2011 COMP PLAN CHANGE THAT IT WAS INCLUDED IN THE 91 ZONING STANDARDS. I GUESS IT GOT ADDED TO THE 91 ZONING STANDARDS. THEY WENT AWAY AT THE SAME TIME. AT THE SAME TIME. OKAY. OH, THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE. BUT I DO KNOW THAT IT WAS THERE AND SO IT BECAME A LITTLE LESS RESTRICTIVE. AND NOW MY CONCERN IS MY CONCERN IS THIS IS FOR SMALLER TRACTS. AND AND I DON'T WANT TO I'M NOT GOING TO NAME A PROJECT, BUT I CAN TELL YOU, WE HAVE SEEN THESE WHERE THEY'VE BROUGHT THEM TO US AND THERE IS NO GREEN SPACE. NONE. AND THE TRACKS ARE GETTING SMALLER. WE ALSO HAVE NEW RULES FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT REGARDING WETLANDS AND ISOLATED WETLANDS AND HOW THAT'S GOING TO PLAY INTO AND THAT'S GOING TO HAVE A BIG EFFECT ON DEVELOPMENT TRACTS THAT WOULD BE SMALLER. SO I DON'T WANT TO STIFLE DEVELOPMENT. AND I WILL SAY THIS. I DO KNOW IN THE 91 STANDARDS, DETENTION PONDS WERE NOT INCLUDED IN YOUR GREEN SPACE. YOU COULD I MEAN, YOU COULD NOT INCLUDE THOSE IN OPEN SPACE THAT. YEAH, WELL, THERE WAS DETENTION PONDS. YOU DID NOT. THAT'S RIGHT. BUT YOU DID REQUIRE A THERE WAS A PRETTY GOOD SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF OPEN SPACE THAT WAS REQUIRED. BUT SO ALL THAT'S CHANGED WHICH IS, WHICH WAS GOOD. AND SO NOW WE HAVE DETENTION PONDS WHICH MAKE GREAT OPEN SPACES. AND SO MY QUESTION IS THIS. THIS IS REALLY WHY I BROUGHT THIS IS MY CONCERN IS, NUMBER ONE, WE'RE GOING TO SEE MORE OF THESE SMALLER DEVELOPMENT DEALS AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE NOTHING BUT CONCRETE BECAUSE THEY CAN BE NOTHING BUT CONCRETE. AND MOST OF THEM ARE MOST LIKELY GOING TO BE FILLING ISOLATED WETLANDS. WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE DO, AND I DON'T KNOW THE PROCESS FOR THIS, IS TO AT LEAST HAVE SOME DISCUSSION, TO PUT SOME REQUIREMENTS AND WHAT THE CARROT IS, IS, HEY, IF YOU HAVE THESE ISOLATED WETLANDS ON YOUR PROPERTY, WE JUST WANT YOU TO HELP US PRESERVE SOME OF THEM AND GIVE THEM, YOU KNOW, CREDITS OR RATIOS TO NOT DO THAT. AND THAT COULD GET EXTREMELY COMPLICATED. I DON'T THINK ANY OF US WANT TO DO THAT, BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT GIVING THEM CREDITS TO USE IN OTHER DEVELOPMENTS. WHAT I WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT, I'M NOT LOOKING TO THAT. I'M LOOKING FOR THEIR OWN STUFF. THIS IS COMING. WE'RE ALREADY SEEING IT. AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT IN MY MIND'S EYE, I SEE IT TOO. IN MY BUSINESS, IT'S LIKE, OKAY, I SEE HOW THIS WORKS AND IT'S FIXING TO HAPPEN. [00:35:01] FLIP SIDE IS, IS I'VE MADE A SUBSTANTIAL INVESTMENT IN OPEN SPACE AND WETLANDS TO PRESERVE THEM. AND I JUST THINK WE NEED TO MAKE AN EFFORT TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT. SO THOSE ARE MY COMMENTS. SO MY QUESTION IS THIS BECAUSE I'M I'M NOT ALL KNOWING WHAT IS THE PROCESS? IS IT A YOU KNOW, A COMMISSION IN GENERAL SAYS, HEY, WE'D LIKE TO MAKE THAT CHANGE. AND WE JUST KIND OF HAVE A STRAW VOTE THAT SAYS, HEY, WE'D LIKE TO DO THAT. AND THEN IT GOES. I MEAN, CITY COUNCIL DIRECTS US. I MEAN, WE'RE WORKING AT THEIR PLEASURE, RIGHT? SO DO WE TAKE A STRAW POLL AND GO, HEY, WE WOULD AT LEAST LIKE AN OPPORTUNITY TO KNOW IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. GIVE ME. HELP ME OUT. YEAH, THAT'S THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD RECOMMEND IS STAFF IS THAT YOU GET SOME BUY IN FROM COUNCIL EARLY ON SO THAT YOU'RE NOT SPINNING YOUR WHEELS ON SOMETHING THEY'RE NOT INTERESTED. RIGHT. SO WE WOULD TYPICALLY RECOMMEND THAT THAT GO THROUGH THE EX-OFFICIO. SO YOU WOULD MAKE A REQUEST TO THE EX OFFICIO THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AN ITEM ON THERE. CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP. OKAY. AND THEN STAFF CAN PRESENT WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS. ARE YOU AS THE CHAIR COULD COME AND JUST INTERACT WITH COUNCIL AND SEE TAKE THEIR TEMPERATURE ON IT. OKAY. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD HAVE SOME, YOU KNOW, HEY, WHAT ARE YOU. IT'S MORE OF I DON'T WANT TO GO DO THAT BECAUSE I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA. MY IDEAS AREN'T ALWAYS THE BEST. SO I'M JUST TRYING TO GET A CONSENSUS OF IS THIS A DIRECTION WE WANT TO GO? I DON'T KNOW HOW THIS WORKS, SO HELP ME OUT. SO DO I. IS IT? YOU CAN DO IT AS CONSENSUS. YOU COULD PUT IT ON AS AN ACTION ITEM IF YOU WANTED TO TAKE AN ACTUAL VOTE ON IT. AND I'M NOT TRYING TO OVER COMPLICATE THIS, JEFFREY. FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT LET'S ALL MARK AT THE 415 MARK IN THE MEETING AND AND TELL SHANNON WALLA THAT THAT'S WHERE RUSTY SAID, I AM NOT ALL KNOWING AND MAKE SURE JEFFREY SHE IS NOT IN HERE RIGHT NOW. LET'S COMMUNICATE TO SHANNON WALLA THAT RUSTY SAID THAT AT THAT POINT SO SHE CAN GO BACK AND LOOK AT IT. AND THEN AFTER THAT POINT, UM, LET ME JUST SAY THAT, RUSTY, I COULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU MORE ON THE POINTS THAT YOU'RE MAKING. AND I THINK THAT IT'S, IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT, UM, COUNCILMAN LISTOWSKI ISN'T THERE TODAY AND, AND THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T THAT WE DON'T HAVE A FULL COMMISSION TO TAKE PART IN THAT. AND SO MY QUESTION IS TO CATHERINE TO KIND OF LAYER ON TO RUSTY'S QUESTION, WHICH WHICH WAY IS IT BEST TO GET STRONGEST TO GET BUY IN FROM COUNSEL? IS IT IS IT STRONGEST TO PUT IT ON AS AN ACTION ITEM AND TO HAVE A VOTE FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION OR TO HAVE IT AS A DISCUSSION ITEM AND JUST TO HAVE OUR EX-OFFICIO TAKE IT IN AS A HEY, PLANNING COMMISSION TALKED ABOUT THIS OR SHOULD IT ACTUALLY BE AN ACTION ITEM THAT WE VOTED ON OR DOES IT MATTER? ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT? WELL, HELLO, COMMISSIONER HILL, BUT I'LL CLEARLY ADDRESS ALL THE COMMISSIONERS. A COUPLE OF THINGS COME TO MY MIND. FIRST IS YOU ARE GOING TO NEED THE EX OFFICIAL HERE. NOW, WHETHER OR NOT THE EX OFFICIAL BUYS INTO WHAT THE COMMISSIONERS HAVE AGREED TO, IF IT'S, HEY, WE'VE TAKEN AN ACTION ITEM, WE VOTED THAT WE WANT THIS TO GO BEFORE CITY COUNCIL. THEY WOULD NEED TO PRESENT THAT TO CITY COUNCIL, WHETHER THEY AGREE WITH IT OR NOT. MOST TIMES THEY ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH SAYING, YEAH, I'LL PUT IT FORTH. BUT SOMETIMES YOU DO HAVE THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE THEY'LL SAY, YOU KNOW, THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS THINKING ABOUT THIS. THAT'S THE FIRST THING. BUT I WOULD ACTUALLY PREFACE ALL THAT TO SAY STAFF. IS. THEIR ABILITY TO DO THESE TYPES OF RESEARCH AND WHATNOT IS LIMITED UNLESS THEY'RE DIRECTED TO DO SO BY CITY COUNCIL AND THEN THROUGH YOU TO SAY STAFF, GO AHEAD AND DO THAT. SO I WOULD NOT SAY STAFF, LET'S DO SOME RESEARCH ON THIS ISSUE FOR YOU GUYS AND THEN HAVE THEM DO THAT WORK. I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU GUYS KNOW OF ANY PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCES AND I THINK WE ALL DO BRING IT TO THAT DISCUSSION. YOU CAN HAVE A DISCUSSION AND ACTION ITEM AT THE SAME TIME. [00:40:05] SO BRING WHATEVER MATERIALS YOU WANT TO PUT FORTH WHEN THE EX OFFICIO IS HERE AND YOU CAN HAVE AN ACTION ITEM ACTION ITEM ON THE SAME THING AND SAY, HEY, WE WANT THIS TO GO BEFORE CITY COUNCIL EX OFFICIO, OR IF THE MEMBERS OF THE GROUP VOTE NOT TO OR DON'T GET ENOUGH VOTES, THEN YOU KNOW WHERE EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE COMMISSION STANDS. I MEAN, WE HAVE FOUR, FIVE OF THE MEMBERS PRESENT, BUT YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN ON THE DAY THAT IT'S ON AN AGENDA. YOU NEVER KNOW. AND IT ALSO DEPENDS ON WHAT'S BEING BROUGHT FORTH, WHAT IS THE THOUGHTS ON HOW TO RECTIFY OR FIX OR TO TO RAISE THE CONCERN ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING ON DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE ISLAND. IT'S NOT JUST THE WEST END. IT'S THE ENTIRE CITY THAT YOU GUYS ARE, YOU KNOW, OVERSEEING OR REVIEWING, REVIEWING. ET CETERA. SO I WOULD SAY IF YOU GUYS WANT TO BRING SOMETHING TO THE EX OFFICIO BRING AS A PREPARED A STATEMENT OR PREPARED INFORMATION OR WHATEVER TO REVIEW AND THEN HAVE IT PLACED ON THE AGENDA AGAIN, IT COULD BE AN ACTION AND DISCUSSION AT THE SAME TIME OR JUST DISCUSSION. GET THE, YOU KNOW, THE FEEL OF THE ROOM, SO TO SPEAK. AND THEN IF YOU NEED TO BRING AN ACTION ITEM AT A AT ANOTHER PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, THEN YOU CAN DO IT THEN. SO, SO REALLY AND WE CAN'T CLEARLY DO THAT AT THIS MEETING. UNDERSTOOD. TO BE SOMETHING THAT'S ALREADY ON AN AGENDA. BUT THIS IS OPEN DISCUSSION, YOU KNOW. YES, I WILL ADD TO TO THAT. KNOWING THAT THIS THIS ISSUE THERE'S A BIT OF A FINE LINE HERE. AND WHICHEVER WAY YOU HEAD, I THINK YOU WANT ENOUGH SPECIFICITY IN WHAT YOU'RE SORT OF LOOKING AT, WHAT YOU'RE ANALYZING, WHAT WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO SOLVE, THAT YOU ARE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, TO TO MAKE THE CASE BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO JUST GO TO COUNCIL AND SAY, WE THINK THERE OUGHT TO BE, YOU KNOW, MORE OPEN SPACE IN THE WEST END DEVELOPMENTS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHY THAT'S IMPORTANT, WHAT'S, YOU KNOW, WHAT WHAT FORMATS YOU KIND OF PERCEIVE THIS TAKING HAVE ENOUGH SPECIFICITY SO THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THE CONTEXT OF THE PROBLEM THAT YOU'RE SEEING AND THEN THEY CAN PROPERLY RESPOND BACK TO YOU ABOUT, WELL, YEAH, I THINK WE SHOULD PURSUE THAT OR, OR, OR WHATEVER. YOU KNOW, IT SHOULDN'T BE JUST SO VAGUE THAT IT'S THIS SORT OF HIGH LEVEL. WE THINK THERE SHOULD BE MORE OPEN SPACE, IT SHOULD BE HAVE SOME CONTEXT TO IT SO THAT THEY CAN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT IT IS THAT YOU'RE REALLY GETTING AT, AT THE CORE OF IT. OKAY. AND THAT'S GREAT ADVICE BECAUSE I WILL TELL YOU, HAVING BEEN THROUGH THE PROCESS, THE FACT THAT I'M BRINGING IT UP IS I DON'T KNOW WHY I'M DOING THIS, BUT IT'S SOMETHING I THINK WE NEED TO DO. BUT IT IS A VERY FINE LINE. I MEAN, THERE'S A POINT WHERE WE USED TO HAVE WHERE IT WAS VERY RESTRICTIVE AND PLANNING COMMISSION HAD A LOT OF A LOT OF SAY SO FOR LACK OF ANOTHER WORD. BUT IT WAS COMPLICATED AND IT GOT EXTREMELY COMPLICATED. AND SO IT'S BETTER, IT'S IT'S MUCH BETTER, WHICH I THINK IS GOOD. BUT SO I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING WITH THE NOD IS JUST SOMETHING YOU GUYS WANT TO KIND OF I THINK WE I THINK WE NEED TO MOVE TOWARD. OKAY. MAKING MAKING A STATEMENT TO TO THAT EFFECT. ALL RIGHT. WELL, I'LL I WILL I WILL TAKE THAT AND I WILL MAKE AN EFFORT WITH CATHERINE TO GET SOMETHING SPECIFIC HERE. MAY I MAKE A COMMENT? YES, MA'AM. ASK A QUESTION. OH, AFTER. GO AHEAD. YOU KNOW, BECAUSE SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO LISTEN TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT EVERYBODY'S THOUGHTS ARE. BUT PART OF WHAT I'M HEARING AND PART OF WHAT I THINK THAT WE REALLY SHOULD CONSIDER IS THAT I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND THE DEVELOPMENT AND THE SMALLER TRACKS THAT NEED TO BE DEVELOPED AND THE, YOU KNOW, LIKE THE TWO ACRES. AND WE WANT TO WE HAVE TO BE REALLY CAREFUL BECAUSE I THINK MORE THAN ANYTHING, I THINK WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO SAY AND I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR EVERYBODY ELSE, BUT JUST FOR ME IS I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE GREENERY, NOT NECESSARILY GREEN SPACE, BUT GREENERY. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE NEW SUBDIVISIONS COMING UP AND ALL THE CONCRETE, MAYBE WE SHOULD CONSIDER LOOKING AT WHAT OTHER CITIES LIKE WEST, YOU DO WHAT THEY DO WITH THEIR PLANS. YEAH. LANDSCAPE, SEEING AND THAT TYPE OF STUFF. NOT JUST NECESSARILY GREEN SPACE AS IN PARKS AND, YOU KNOW, WHOLE TRACKS OF PIECES OF LAND OR PLOTS THAT WE USE OUT THERE FOR NOTHING BUT, YOU KNOW, GRASS. [00:45:05] SO I DO SAY JUST JUST TO BE MINDFUL AND I'M WITH YOU ON THE PART ABOUT DEVELOPMENT, I UNDERSTAND COMPLETELY. BUT TO BE MINDFUL THAT WE DON'T NECESSARILY PEOPLE SPEND A LOT OF MONEY FOR THESE TRACTS OF LAND AND HAVING TO GIVE UP A WHOLE PLOT OF, YOU KNOW, OR A WHOLE PLOT BECAUSE OF GREEN SPACE, MAYBE THEY CAN'T DO THAT. MAYBE THAT'S NOT AFFORDABLE, BUT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THEY CAN DO LANDSCAPING. MATURE TREES AND OTHER EFFORTS MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THE WAY THOSE THOSE NEW SUBDIVISIONS COME UP. AND I WOULD AGREE A COMBINATION OF ALL OF THAT IS WHAT IT'S GOING TO TAKE, JEFFREY. MY QUESTION WAS, I KNOW THAT WE CAN PUT DIFFERENT OR I THINK WE CAN, THAT WE'RE ALLOWED TO PUT DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS FOR DIFFERENT. UM, ACREAGE AND DIFFERENT TRACKS, DIFFERENT AMOUNTS OF ACREAGE. ARE WE ALLOWED, UM, DONNA, TO DISTINGUISH? I KNOW THAT IN SOME PREVIOUS ITERATIONS OF REGULATIONS WE COULD DISTINGUISH BETWEEN WEST END AND EAST END. WE COULD SAY THERE'S ONE SET OF RULES FOR THE WEST END, ONE SET OF RULES FOR THE EAST END. ARE WE ALLOWED TO DO THAT ANYMORE? SO COULD WE SAY THERE WAS YOU KNOW, I'M LOOKING AT THE GENERAL WEST END DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS TABLE THAT'S UP HERE ON THE SCREEN. COULD WE MAKE A DISTINCTION FOR THE WEST END VERSUS THE EAST END? I WOULD CURRENTLY DO IT. WE'RE DOING IT. I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE DO. YEAH. THE REASON WHY I MADE THE COMMENT YOU ALL LOOK AT THE WHOLE ISLAND IS BECAUSE THERE ARE DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF THE. I CAN'T HEAR. I'M SORRY. I'M SORRY. THE FIRST THING I SAID WAS, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE DO ALREADY. THERE ARE DEFINITELY DIFFERENT STANDARDS AND REGULATIONS FOR DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE ISLAND, AND THIS COMMISSION REVIEWS THE WHOLE ISLAND AND WHAT THOSE DISTRICTS OR JURISDICTIONS OR NEIGHBORHOODS, WHAT THEY'RE ZONED FOR OR WHAT THEY HAVE. ET CETERA. ET CETERA. SO THE COMMISSIONERS DO. THE COMMISSION DOES THAT ANYWAY. I GUESS IT WOULD ALL DEPEND ON WHAT TYPE OF REGULATION THAT YOU ALL ARE ENVISIONING AND WHETHER OR NOT IT WOULD WORK FOR THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ISLAND OR THE MIDDLE PART OF THE ISLAND. IS IT SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BE CITYWIDE OR CAN IT ONLY BE ON THE EAST END OR THE WEST END OR THE STRAND AREA OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? AND I WOULD AGREE. I MEAN, IT IS WHAT WORKS. WAY WEST DOESN'T NECESSARILY DOESN'T IT'S APPLES AND ORANGES. AND SO IT'S SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE I, I AGREE. I GUESS THIS IS WHERE JEFFREY WAS HEADED WAS, HEY, THERE WOULD BE A NEED, THERE WOULD BE A NEED FOR A DIFFERENT SET OF RULES IN THE URBAN CORE VERSUS WHAT IS THE EQUIVALENT OF OUR SUBURBAN AREA. SO ALONG THOSE LINES, WHAT WHAT'S GOING TO OCCUR OUT EAST OF LIKE HOLIDAY DRIVE, WE MAY HAVE A FUTURE THERE. THAT'S GOING TO BE ISSUES OF DENSITY. I MEAN, ONCE AN ACCRETING SIDE AND IF WE HAD OBJECTIVES BEING, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE DOING WHAT DONNA ASKED US TO DO AND WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT OUR OBJECTIVES ARE AND NOT JUST BROAD GENERALITIES OF WHY WE'RE DOING THIS. IF WE LOOK AT WHAT OUR SPECIFIC OBJECTIVES WERE AND IT WOULD BE TO HELP DRAINAGE AND THINGS LIKE THAT, WE NEED TO LOOK AT WHERE WE MIGHT BE TAKING AWAY LARGE PARTS OF OPEN LAND THAT HAVE PROVIDED A LOT OF DRAINAGE AND VERSUS PARTS OF TOWN WHERE WE'RE LOOKING AT REDEVELOPMENT VERSUS FIRST ROUNDS OF DEVELOPMENT. SO ANYWAY, THAT WAS JUST ANOTHER THING THAT WAS ROLLING AROUND IN MY HEAD. RUSTY WAS THINKING ABOUT WHAT THESE OBJECTIVES WERE THAT DONNA WAS TALKING ABOUT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WELL, WE'LL WORK ON THAT. THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME ON THIS. LET'S LET'S MOVE ON TO THE IF YOU GUYS ARE ALL OKAY WITH THIS, I'D LIKE TO MOVE ON TO THE TO OUR OTHER DISCUSSION ITEMS, THE [7.B. 2023 Planning Commission Awards (Staff)] AWARDS, THE FUN STUFF. SO JUST A REMINDER ABOUT THE SCHEDULE. WE ARE IN THE PUBLIC NOMINATIONS PORTION. SO THAT OPENED ON AUGUST 1ST. THE PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICE DID A PRESS RELEASE AND WE HAVE GOTTEN A COUPLE OF INTERESTED NOMINEES SO THAT IS ONGOING. [00:50:03] WE'RE JUST HAVING A DISCUSSION ITEM TODAY TO REMIND US OF THE SCHEDULE. SO THE PUBLIC NOMINATIONS WILL CLOSE ON SEPTEMBER 1ST AND THEN WE'LL GATHER ALL OF THE NOMINATIONS TOGETHER PRESENT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AT A WORKSHOP ON SEPTEMBER 19TH. SO WE'LL DO A WORKSHOP BEFORE THE REGULAR MEETING, AND THEN THERE'LL BE AN ACTION ITEM ON THE MEETING AND THEN YOU'LL CHOOSE YOUR SLATE. WHAT WE USUALLY DO IS WE'LL SEND OUT THE THE POWERPOINT WITH ALL THE NOMINEES IN IT AND A SURVEY MONKEY SURVEY, AND THEN YOU ALL DO SOME RANKINGS. SO IT'LL GIVE YOU SOME FRAMEWORK WHEN YOU GET TOGETHER ON THE WORKSHOP. SOUNDS GOOD. ANY QUESTIONS? ALL RIGHT. OKAY. AND IF YOU THINK OF ANYTHING, SEND IT IN TO ME. ALL RIGHT. VERY GOOD. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR DISCUSSIONS? I JUST HAVE ONE ANNOUNCEMENT. OUR BUILDING OFFICIAL, DAVID EWALD, WHO'S BEEN WITH US FOR 41 YEARS. WOW. 41 YEARS. YEAH. HE'S RETIRING AT THE END OF THIS WEEK. WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A LITTLE GET TOGETHER FOR HIM IN THAT ROOM 204 RIGHT NEXT TO US FROM 130 TO 330 ON FRIDAY. SO IF ANY OF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN WISHING HIM WELL, YOU ARE MORE THAN WELCOME. THANK YOU, TIM. AND WE WISH DAVID WELL. SO BEING NO OTHER BUSINESS, WE'LL ADJOURN THE MEETING. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANKS, JEFFREY. OKAY. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.