[*A portion of this video is without audio*]
[00:13:39]
>> SO THIS IS SOME CONFUSION ON THE CERTIFICATE OF PERMIT.
[4.A. Discussion Of Beachfront Construction/Dune Protection Permit Process (Staff) ]
[00:13:48]
THE CITY OF GALVESTON ISSUES THE CERTIFICATE,[00:13:53]
ACTUAL LETTER PERMIT, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT.THERE'S A MISCONCEPTION THAT THAT'S GLO.
GLO HAS APPROVED IT, GLO HAS DENIED IT, THEY DON'T.
THE LAW JUST SAYS ONCE WE DEVELOP OUR PLAN, WE HAD TO COORDINATE WITH GLO.
THERE IT IS TRUE THAT WHAT WE'RE AUTHORIZING COMPLIES WITH OUR PLAN, THE STATE STATUTE, TEXAS ADMINISTRATIVE CODE, THINGS LIKE THAT.
BUT THE GLO IS NOT THE ONE WHO IS ISSUING OR DENYING THIS.
IT'S THE CITY OF GALVESTON, IT'S US.
THEN THERE'S SOME INFORMATION ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION, YEAH, ACTUALLY YOU ALL KNOW THAT.
THE CONSTRUCTION OF SEAWARD OR UP TO 50 FOOT, LANDWARD OR THE DUNE PROTECTION LINE, 25 FOOT NOR TO DUNE.
HERE'S THE PROCESS, WE'LL GO STEP-BY-STEP, YOU'RE ANOTHER PROCESS.
THAT PRESSURE WAS SENT TO US, ONE THING THAT WAS ALSO OCCURRING, THERE WERE INCOMPLETE APPLICATIONS BEING SENT UP TO GLO.
[00:15:02]
THEN THEY WILL COME BACK, SAY THESE ARE INCOMPLETE APPLICATIONS AND OTHER.THEY MAY DO THIS, WHAT WE'RE DOING IS AS SOON AS WE GET SOMETHING, IF IT IS MISSING SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE OUTLINED IN OUR APPLICATION PACKET ON A WEBSITE OR A PLAN, WE'RE JUST LETTING THEM KNOW WE'RE NOT SENDING TO GLO BACK-AND-FORTH.
WE'RE LETTING THE APPLICANT KNOW IT'S INCOMPLETE.
YOU NEED TO SUBMIT THAT TO US BEFORE WE EVEN SEND IT TO GLO
>> TALKING ABOUT STREAMLINING THE PROCESS.
THEY SUBMITTED GLO FIRST BEFORE, YOU SEE.
>> NO, THEY SUBMIT IT TO US FIRST.
>> YOU CAN SEE IT CORRECTED BEFORE IT GOES TO GLO?
YOUR PROCESS ON YOUR SIDE, NOT THE GLO SIDE BECAUSE I CAN SEE 10-30 DAYS.
YOUR PROCESS TYPICALLY TAKES HOW MANY DAYS?
>> WELL, IT DEPENDS ON IF THEY HAVE A COMPLETE APPLICATION.
NOW, I'LL BE HONEST WITH YOU, LAST TWO MONTHS HAS BEEN TAKING A LOT LONGER BECAUSE [LAUGHTER] I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO THEY ARE.
BUT THE 10-30 DAYS FOR GLO IS IN TEXAS ADMINISTRATIVE CODE.
THEY HAVE 10 DAYS IF IT'S SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTS, 10 BUSINESS DAYS TO REVIEW THAT.
THEY HAVE 30 DAYS IF IT'S A LARGE PROJECT, LARGE-SCALE COMMERCIAL AREA, MORE THAN, I THINK 5,000 SQUARE FEET OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
>> HOW ABOUT THE CITY OF GALVESTON?
>> WE DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING IN OUR PLAN OF THIS IS HOW LONG IT TAKES FOR US TO DO THAT.
>> IT'S NOT ESTABLISHED BY CODE LIKE A GLO.
SO THEREFORE IT TYPICALLY TAKES HOW LONG FOR A SINGLE-FAMILY HOUSE?
>> A SINGLE-FAMILY HOUSING, I'LL SAY WE HAD ONE THAT CAME IN LIKE THREE WEEKS AGO.
SOMEBODY CAME IN, THEY WANTED TO EXPAND THEIR DRIVEWAY, THERE'S A NORTH OF 2005, WE GOT THAT TURNAROUND.
THEY HAD EVERYTHING IN OUR APPLICATION.
WE GOT IT SENT UP TO GLO WHERE I THINK TURNAROUND WITHIN A WEEK.
NOW, SOME OF THE ONES THAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TAKE CARE OF, JUST TRYING TO LEARN THE PROJECTS, GET THEM UP TO SPEED BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, WHAT WAS HAPPENING WAS THINGS WERE BEING SENT UP THERE AND THEY'RE INCOMPLETE.
I MET WITH ONE YESTERDAY, THE GLO SAID SOMETHING BACK IN DECEMBER.
WE SENT THE LETTER TO THEM THE MIDDLE OF DECEMBER.
THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE LETTER WAS SAYING AND SO THERE WERE UPSET AND I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S HAPPENING BUT WE MET WITH HIM YESTERDAY AND SO THIS IS WHAT WE NEED.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO EVALUATE IT ANYMORE, WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING TILL YOU GET US THIS REQUIRED INFORMATION.
BUT WE'RE GOING TO START TRYING TO TURNAROUND LIKE I SAID, IT DEPENDS ON IF THE APPLICANTS HAD THE INFORMATION TO THIS.
IF SOMEBODY HAS TO DO MITIGATION, IF THEY COME IN THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT ENTAILS.
THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ENSURE THAT THEY HAVE A PLAN BECAUSE THAT'S IN OUR PLAN, THAT'S AN ATTACK.
IF THEY COME IN IT'S LIKE, YEAH, WE'RE GOING TO DISTURB THIS VEGETATION THAT'S LIKE OKAY, YOU HAD TO HAVE A MITIGATION PLAN.
THEY HAVE NO IDEA THEN THAT'S GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME ON THEIR PART BUT ONCE WE FEEL IT'S COMPLETE WE'RE TRYING TO GET THESE THINGS TURNED AROUND.
WE HAD SOMEBODY WHO JUST TOOK RUSSELL'S POSITION ON MONDAY, STARTED ON MONDAY, SO HE'S ABLE TO GETTING STARTED, HE IS OVER THERE CRANKING OUT PERMITS, EVALUATE STUFF RIGHT NOW.
BUT YEAH. I WANT TO GO BACK TO WHAT SHE FIRST SAID.
NOBODY SHOULD BE GOING TO GLO BEFORE THEY COME TO US.
NOBODY SHOULD BE GOING TO GLO, WHEN I THINK THAT'S BEEN THE PROCEDURE DOWN HERE, LET'S GO TO GLO.
GLO SAYS IT'S OKAY, THEY HAVE NO ISSUE WITH IT AND SO THEY SHOULD BE COMING.
LIKE I SAID, IT'S US, IT'S OUR DECISION.
WHEN WE SENT STUFF TO GLO WE SAY JUST LIKE WHEN WE COME IN FRONT OF YOU ALL, WILL YOU PROVE THIS? MAKE THIS, AND IF IT DOESN'T MEET OUR PLAN THEN WE SHOULD BE KICKING IT BACK TO THE APPLICANT.
GLO OR Y'ALL SHOULD NEVER SAY ANYTHING UNLESS WE THINK THAT IT MEETS SOMETHING.
YOU DON'T HAVE THE FINAL SAY ON STUFF.
IF WE THINK IT MEETS EVERYTHING THEN WE BRING IT TO Y'ALL ARE SOME YELLOW.
>> DO WE PROVIDE A PACKET WITH A CHECKLIST? I MIGHT HAVE MISSED THIS BECAUSE I WAS, BUT A PACKET WITH A CHECKLIST FOR THE HOMEOWNERS OF ALL THE THINGS THAT THEY ARE REQUIRED BEFORE THEY EVEN START THE PROCESS?
>> YES, MA'AM. IT'S ON THE WEBSITE AND THEN IT DEPENDS ALSO ON WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.
WE HAVE IT BROKEN DOWN IF YOU'RE A SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENCE, DOING WALK OVER, INCREASING A DRIVEWAY, SOMEBODY WANT TO INCREASE THEIR DRIVEWAY.
BUT YES, MA'AM. IT'S ON THE WEBSITE AND THEN IT
[00:20:02]
HAS BROKEN DOWN INTO WHAT TYPE OF ACTIVITY THAT YOU WANT TO DO.>> TO SAY THAT BECAUSE I'LL BE GLAD TO DO IT.
IT WOULD BE GOOD FOR THE CONSUMERS OR OUR CITIZENS TO KNOW WHERE TO FIND THIS TYPE OF INFORMATION, BECAUSE I THINK IT MIGHT SAVE YOU GUYS A LITTLE BIT OF TIME IF PEOPLE UNDERSTOOD THAT A, [LAUGHTER] HERE'S THE ORDER OF THE WAY THINGS WORK.
HERE'S WHERE YOU FIND ALL OF THIS INFORMATION AND MAYBE EVEN PUT SOMETHING DOWNSTAIRS IN CITY HALL ABOUT THE DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS AND WHERE THINGS ARE IN DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS NOT NECESSARILY PAPER BUT WEBSITE LINKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT OR IN THE NEWSLETTER THAT GOES OUT.
I HAVEN'T SEEN A NEWSLETTER IN A WHILE THOUGH.
I CAN'T RECALL SEEING IT IN A MINUTE.
BUT WE USED TO GET OUR CITY NEWSLETTER AND IT'S BEEN AWHILE AND THAT I THINK ABOUT IT. IS [OVERLAPPING]
>> ANYBODY ELSE WANT TO TALK ABOUT IN THE WATER BILL?
>> NO, I USED TO GET ONE IN EMAIL.
I USED TO GET A CITY NEWSLETTER.
>> YOU NEVER HAVE? I USED TO GET A CITY NEWSLETTER THAT CAME WITH WHAT WAS GOING ON.
THAT HAS THIS. [OVERLAPPING] I WISH.
BUT I'M JUST SAYING THAT USED TO BE ONE AND IT WOULDN'T BE BAD FOR US TO THINK ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT OR OUR DEPARTMENTS TO THINK SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
>> YOU'VE ALL SEEN THIS [LAUGHTER] WE ARE LAMINATED SHEETS.
THIS IS JUST SHOWING THE MAN HOT WATER, THE FOREFOOT COUNTER, SOFT LANDWARD JUST THINGS ALONG THOSE DUNES.
EACH LOCALITY CAN ESTABLISH THEIR OWN DUNE PROTECTION LINE WHERE THEY WANT THAT.
LIKE I SAID, WHAT WE HAVE HERE IN GALVESTON IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THEY HAVE ON SOUTH PADRE ISLAND, SO THAT FLEXIBILITY IS IN THE TEXAS STATUE.
BUT AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE, THE PLANNING COMMISSION REVIEW AREA, THE DUNE PROTECTION LINE, 25" NORTH TO THE DUNE AND THEN 50" LANDWARD AT THE DUNE PROTECTION LINE.
THEN THE HANDS CONSTRUCTION ZONE, THEN WHAT WE LOOK AT ALL WINTER 1000" FROM ME AND HAD TIMELINE.
CAN I HAVE A QUESTION? WE WILL START WITH YOU, SIR.
>> YES. JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, ON THAT VERY FIRST SLIDE.
IF 3W5 WAS 200" NORTH OF THAT 1,000" FROM THE MEAN HIGH TIDE, THAT WOULD EXTEND THE BEACHFRONT CONSTRUCTION CERTIFICATE PERMANENT AREA 200" NORTH?
>> WHICHEVER IS GREATER. [LAUGHTER].
>> WAIT A MINUTE. I DIDN'T GET THAT EITHER [LAUGHTER].
>> NO I SAW THE SLIDE BUT IT DIDN'T CLICK IN MY MIND THAT IF THE PUBLIC ROAD WAS FURTHER AWAY, THAT WOULD MAKE THE DUNE PROTECTION FURTHER AWAY IS WHERE IT'S OUT OF.
>> THE INSTRUCTION CERTIFICATE PROMINENT AREA.
>> I GUESS WHEN THEY'RE REDOING THE ROAD, AND THEY MOVE THE ROAD.
IT PLAYS A BIG PART, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE A HURRICANE AND THE ROAD GETS WASHED OUT, AND THEY HAVE TO RE-DO IT.
THAT MEANS IT EXTENDS THAT PERMITTING AREA.
>> THIS IS JUST A CROSS SECTION OF THIS SAME THING.
THE CRITICAL DUNE AREA HERE IS THE SOUTH TOE DUNE AFTER THE NORTH TOE DUNE, DUNE CONSERVATION AREA 53" LANDWARD.
BUT LIKE I SAID, THE STATUARY AND IT GOES THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS, THE SAME REVIEWS, THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT THE CNS PLANNING COMMISSION REVIEW AREA, THEN WE BRING FOR YOU ALL TO REVIEW AND TO VOTE ON.
BUT EVERYTHING ELSE OUTSIDE OF THAT IS BROUGHT TO US.
WHAT DID THE 25" BUFFER COME FROM? THE COUNTY COMMISSIONER COURT, THIS IS JUST WHAT IT SAYS IN THERE.
THEY CAN ESTABLISH, DURING THE CONSERVATION LINE, THE NEXT LOCAL ORDINANCE IS FOUND IN THE LINE LOCATED AT THE NORTH TOE 25" LANDWARD CRITICAL DUNE AREA THAT'S WHERE WE GET THE 25" BUFFER.
>> HOW FREQUENTLY IS THAT 25" DUNE PROTECTION LINES SET? IS IT SET BY EACH INDIVIDUAL APPLICATION? IS IT'S SET BY SOME MASTER SURVEY THAT SOMEBODY DOES ONCE A YEAR, ONCE EVERY FIVE YEARS.
[00:25:01]
[OVERLAPPING]>> THIS IS WHERE GALVESTON IS LITTLE BIT MORE RESTRICTIVE THAN THE GLM WE REQUIRE A SURVEY AND SO MANY PEOPLE COMES TO US WE REQUIRE A SURVEY.
THE SURVEYORS WILL SET THE MAIN HIGH TIDE LINE, THEY WILL GO OUT THERE, WHATEVER IS THERE NOW AND WE WILL GET INTO THIS A LITTLE BIT LIGHTER, BUT WHEREVER THE LINE OF VEGETATION IS, NORTH TOE THE DUNE, THAT'S WHEN YOU ALL SEE THE SURVEYS IS DASHBOARD IS COMING FROM.
THAT'S THE REQUIREMENT, THE CITY GALVESTON AS IT'S NOT EVEN A DLL, THEY'RE TRYING TO UPDATE THE TEXAS ADMINISTRATIVE CODE INCLUDES SURVEY, BUT WE HAVE A RECENT SURVEY OR AFTER A MID BIOLOGICAL EVENT, HURRICANE OR SOMETHING LIKE.
IF WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY STORMS FOR A YEAR AND SOMEBODY GETS IT ADD A SURVEYS, WE'VE DONE EIGHT MONTHS AGO, THEN THERE SHOULDN'T BE MUCH CHANGES OUT THERE.
BUT IF WE HAD A HURRICANE LAST YEAR AND THEY WANT TO COME TO US, WE MAY REQUIRE THEM TO GET AN UPDATE ON SURVEY SOMETHING.
BUT, THOSE EVERY PROJECT THAT COMES IN HAS THIS SURVEY AND I SAID THAT'S WHAT WE'RE MORE RESTRICTIVE THAN THE GLM.
THE NORTH TOE THE DUNE IS COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE, BUT WE GOT THERE IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS WE HAVE.
I MEAN, WE WERE JUST ON SITE YESTERDAY, MAYBE PUT SOME PEOPLE THAT HAVEN'T THAT APPLICATION AND IN ABOUT WERE IS NORTH DUNE DUNE.
WHEN WE MOVE OUT THERE EDUCATING PEOPLE, HERE IS WHERE.
IF YOU SEE A PICTURE, IT COULD BE JUST A LITTLE DEEP AND THEN YOU START GOING UP, SOMETIMES CAN'T TELL SO YOU HAD TO GO OUT THERE BY YOURSELF. YES, MA'AM.
>> YOU KNOW WHEN THE CITY FOR EXAMPLE AND WE HEARD ABOUT THIS AND OTHER CASES WHEN THEY ABANDONED A PIECE OF PROPERTY, THEY HAVE CERTAIN APPRAISERS WHO ARE APPROVED AND A LIST OF APPRAISERS WHO ARE APPROVED THAT THEY GO THROUGH AND THEY CHOOSE.
I'M WONDERING IF ON SURVEYORS, IT SEEMS LIKE ON SURVEYING BEACH FRONT LAND, THERE'S A CERTAIN SET OF KNOWLEDGE OR A CERTAIN TYPE OF THINGS YOU NEED TO BE FAMILIAR WITH.
NOT EVERYONE WHO SURVEYS LAND, IN GENERAL, KNOWS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT A DUNE IS? WHAT'S A VEGETATIVE BURN? WHAT'S AMOUNT OF SAND? AND WHAT'S A DUNE?
>> WHAT I'VE LEARNED SINCE I'VE BEEN ON PLANNING COMMISSION, THAT A LITTLE MOUNTAIN OF SAND IS NOT A DUNE.
THAT A DUNE HAS TO BE HELD TOGETHER BY ALL THE LITTLE WHATEVER THEY ARE PILLING STONES [OVERLAPPING] AND EVERYTHING THAT ARE IN THERE THAT MAKE IT CLUMPED TOGETHER, THAT ACTUALLY MAKE IT DO ITS WORK.
SEE, PLANNING COMMISSION HAS BEEN GOOD FOR MY BRAIN [LAUGHTER] I'VE LEARNED NEW THINGS, I'VE EXPANDED BEYOND A COUNTY AND SO I'M WONDERING, WOULD THERE EVER BE A SCENARIO WHERE WE WOULD HAVE APPROVED SURVEYORS? MAY BE. OH, CATHERINE'S GETTING THAT LOOK ON HER FACE.
WHERE WE MIGHT SUGGEST CERTAIN SURVEYORS, TO DO WHAT THEY WERE DOING MORE THAN OTHERS.
[NOISE] YOU CAN PROVIDE BETTER INFORMATION.
>> I DON'T KNOW IF WE WOULD DO THAT.
I WAS SAYING THAT WHEN WE GET AN APPLICATION IN THE FIRST THING WE'RE LOOKING AT IS THAT WE WERE SCRUTINIZING THE SURVEY.
WHAT WE NEED TO KNOW IS A 25 FEET AS IT.
WHAT WE NEED TO BRING TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT'S PROBABLY THE MOST LOOKED AT PIECE OF INFORMATION.
DO THEY HAVE THE DISTANCES? WE'VE SEEN IN STEP BACK IT IS SERIOUS, THIS DISTANCE DOESN'T LOOK RIGHT.
YOU'RE SAYING THE MAIN HAD TAGLINE IS HERE.
I'M LOOKING AT A RUBRIC AND I MEASURE IT AND IT'S NOT SHOWING UP.
THAT'S PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT WE'VE LOOKED AT.
I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS A PREFERRED, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE TO USE A COMB A SEARCH.
[OVERLAPPING] HERE ON ON GALVESTON ISLAND.
[00:30:03]
>> I KNOW UNDER WHICH ONE BECAUSE WE SEE THEM ALL THE TIME.
>> LIKE I SAID, I DON'T KNOW, PROBABLY 90% OF THE SURVEYS THAT WE SEE COME IN IS FROM THAT PARTICULAR COMPANY, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN SAY YOU NEED TO USE THIS ONE OR THIS ONE.
AS A PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER WHO ALSO THE SURVEYING BOARD WAS PART OF THE PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERING BOARD AT ONE TIME.
PROBABLY COUNCIL WILL TELL ME THOUGH THAT WE SHOULDN'T BE IN THE BUSINESS OF LISTING OUT EITHER FOLKS THAT ARE REGISTERED OR HAVE THE ABILITY TO PROVIDE THOSE SERVICES.
>> THEY ARE TRULY LICENSED BY THE STATE.
[OVERLAPPING] HAVING SAID THAT YOU'RE GOING TO LET MARKET CONDITIONS DICTATE WHO ENDS UP DOING THE WORK.
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO FIND A PIPELINE SURVEY OR WHO'S WORKING OUT IN WEST TEXAS COMING DOWN AND DOING.
[OVERLAPPING] THAT'S JUST THE MARKET CONDITION.
I UNDERSTAND IT BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE MORE FAMILIAR WITH SOME OF THE ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH B TRUNK CONSTRUCTION.
BUT GLOBALLY, THE BOARD OF SURVEYORS AT THE STATE LEVEL DOES NOT DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THOSE LEVELS OF EXPERTISE.
>> I JUST QUESTIONS SOME OF THE INFORMATION WE GET SOMETIMES THAT SOMETHING IS MARKED AS A DUNE ON SOME OF OUR SURVEYS AND I WILL GO OUT AND LOOK AT THE PROPERTY.
YOU LOOK AT IT AND IT'S NOT A DUNE.
>> THE OTHER THING IS THAT CONSISTENCY IN DIMENSIONING THE AMOUNT OF INFORMATION THAT ARE PROVIDED ON THE SURVEYS, DIFFER GREATLY BECAUSE THERE IS A CERTAIN MINIMUM LEVEL OF INFORMATION THAT THE CITY REQUIRES.
BUT THEN SOME SURVEYORS WILL GO ABOVE AND BEYOND THAT AND PROVIDE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION WHICH IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT SUBJECT, BUT ONE WHICH I THINK IS IMPORTANT WHEN WE HAVE THE DISCUSSION HAPPENING TOO.
[4.B. Discussion Of Wetland Regulations (Finklea) ]
>> I'M GOING TO MOVE ALONG WITH SOME OF THE WETLANDS.
[OVERLAPPING] I SAID THIS IS JUST WASTED WHEN THINGS ARE NOT PRESENT.
THE PLANNING COMMISSIONER VIEWER ENHANCE CONSTRUCTION.
WE GO MORE FOR THE MAIN HIGH TIDE LINE.
THERE IS NOT ANY DANGER OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
THIS IS JUST MORE TERMINOLOGY WHEN THERE'S NO LOT OF VEGETATION, NO DUNES, DO PROTECTION LINE.
WE GO OFF THE MAIN HIGH TIDE AND THINGS LIKE THAT TO SET UP THOSE PARAMETERS OF WHAT WE WILL BRING TO YOU ALL AND WHAT WE WOULD DO ADMINISTRATIVELY AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
>> START TALKING GO BACK ONE MORE SLIDE OR GO BACK TO NO DUNE PRESENT.
TWO HUNDRED FEET FROM THE MEAN LOW TIDE, ESTABLISHES A LINE OF VEGETATION.
THEN ONCE YOU ESTABLISH THE LINE OF VEGETATION, THEN YOU'RE ABLE TO DO AT 200 FEET NORTH OF THAT AND THAT WAY LANDWARD OF THAT AND THAT WOULD BE WHERE YOUR CONSTRUCTION CAN BEGIN.
>> YES. THEN UNLESS YOU BUILD A DUNE TO RESET IT.
>> THAT'S 75 FEET, RIGHT THERE WOULD BE IS THE MINIMUM WIDTH FOR A DUNE RESTORATION PROJECT. IS THAT CORRECT?
>> WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE 50 FEET AND THE 25 FEET? WHY IS IT BROKEN UP LIKE THAT?
>> I THINK THE 50 FEET HAS TO BE ON THE FULL DUNE.
THE FRONT OF THE DUNE TO WITHSTAND THE THING, I THINK THAT'S THE SURGE.
>> I THINK THAT IS OUTLINED IN SOME OF THE COASTAL CONSTRUCTION MANUAL AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
THAT'S WHY THEY WANT MORE ON THAT FRONT END SIDE TO TAKE MORE THE STORM SURGE OR WATER AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
THAT'S WHY THEY HAVEN'T DONE WITH THAT.
>> THE TERM WE THROW AROUND SO LOOSELY.
>> CATHERINE SAID, I'VE DONE WETLAND DELINEATION DOES WHERE THE CORE FOR 15 YEARS ACTUALLY SPENT SOME TIME UP IN DC WORKING ON WETLAND REGULATIONS, BEEN OUT OF THE CORE FOR ABOUT 10 YEARS.
WE'VE GOT 25 YEARS OF CONSULTING DOING WETLAND DELINEATIONS ON THE PRIVATE SIDE. GRAB ANY QUESTIONS.
I'VE TRIED TO MAKE IT REALLY HIGH LEVEL, BUT IF YOU'VE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS WE CAN GET INTO ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS.
WHY DO PEOPLE HAD TO DO WETLAND DELINEATION? IT ALL COMES FROM THE CLEAN WATER ACT OF 1972.
[00:35:03]
IN 1972, CONGRESS AUTHORIZED THE EPA AND THE CORPS TO REGULATE THE PLACEMENT OF FILL OR DREDGE MATERIAL IN WETLANDS AND OTHER WATERS.OTHER WATERS ARE RIVERS, STREAMS, CREEKS, WATER SIDE OF THE MAIN HIGH TIDE LINE. THINGS LIKE THAT.
I WANT TO DRAW ATTENTION TO SOME LANGUAGE IN THIS.
THE LANGUAGE IS TO REGULATE THE PLACEMENT OF FILL OR DREDGE MATERIAL.
THAT'S WHAT TRIGGERS THE COURSE.
WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE CORE PERMITTING PROCESS IN WETLANDS, TIDAL FEDERAL NAVIGABLE CHANNELS ARE USED IN SHIP CHANNEL OUT IN THE GULF OF MEXICO.
THEY ALSO HAVE A LAW ON NAVIGATION ANYTHING OVER UNDER AROUND.
THEY REGULATE BUT JUST TALKING ABOUT WETLANDS, THE PLACEMENT OF FILL OR DREDGE MATERIAL INTO THE WETLAND.
THAT IS WHAT TRIGGERS THE CORES FOR PERMANENT.
I WANT TO DRAW ATTENTION THERE SO WHEN PEOPLE LOOK AT WETLAND DELINEATIONS THAT THE REASON YOU DO A DELINEATION IS WHERE DO YOU NEED A PERMIT? AS I SAID, WHY DON'T WE DELINEATE WETLANDS? IT HELPS TO FIND THE LIMITS OF FEDERAL JURISDICTION IN ACCORDANCE WITH CURRENT LAWS REGULATIONS AND POLICY, AND IT DETERMINES A WETLAND AREA AFFECTED BY A PROJECT.
THIS IS THE FIRST STEP IN IMPACT ASSESSMENT, ALTERNATIVE ANALYSIS, MITIGATION.
IS ANYBODY HERE FAMILIAR WITH THE CORE 4, 4 PROGRAM? THERE'S TWO LEVELS OF PERMITS.
THEY HAVE A LEVEL OF PERMITS CALLED NATIONWIDE PERMITS.
HAVE Y'ALL HEARD OF THOSE, NATIONWIDE PERMITS?
>> THEN I HAVE INDIVIDUAL PERMITS.
WHAT NATIONWIDE PERMITS ARE, ARE A SET OF 52 PERMITS OUT THERE, BUT IF THEY'RE MODERATE IMPACTS TO A WETLAND.
IF I'M A FARMER UP IN NORTHWEST ARKANSAS AND I HAVE A CREEK FLOWING THROUGH MY PROPERTY, AND I WANT TO PUT A CULVERT IN THERE TO ACCESS PROPERTY, PUTTING A CULVERT IN THERE, I WILL DISCHARGE GRAVEL.
I'M DISCHARGING SOMETHING INTO [INAUDIBLE] UNITED STATES.
IT MAY BE 10 FEET WIDE, SO I HAVE TO HAVE A PERMIT TO DO THAT.
NATIONWIDE PERMITS ALLOW, IF IT'S A MODERATE IMPACT THAT I DON'T HAVE TO SUBMIT AN APPLICATION TO THE COURT, IT HAS CONDITIONS, THEY ARE UPDATED EVERY FIVE YEARS AT A NATIONAL LEVEL.
EACH DISTRICT CAN PUT SPECIFIC REGIONAL CONDITIONS ON IT.
WHAT I HAVE DOWN HERE IN GALVESTON, SEAGRASS DOWN AROUND CORPUS CHRISTI, THEY WON'T HAVE IN LITTLE ROCK, ARKANSAS.
THEY CAN CONDITION A NATIONWIDE PERMIT.
IF YOU WANT TO BUILD A BULKHEAD IN CORPUS CHRISTI, EVEN THOUGH IT MEANS THAT NATIONWIDE, WE STILL WANT TO SEE IT BECAUSE THERE MAY BE SEAGRASS, THERE MAYBE SOMETHING SPECIFIC THERE.
NOW IF IT DOESN'T MEET THE SMALL AMOUNT OF IMPACT, THAT'S WHAT THEY ELEVATE TO WHAT THEY CALL AN INDIVIDUAL OR STANDARD PERMIT.
THAT'S WHAT GOES OUT ON PUBLIC NOTICE.
BOTH OF THEM GO THROUGH PUBLIC COMMENTS, BUT THE INDIVIDUAL STANDARD PERMIT IS JUST LOCAL, WHEREAS THE NATIONWIDES ARE DONE AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL BY HEADQUARTERS.
BUT IT GOES ON, ON PUBLIC NOTICE, ANYBODY CAN COMMENT ON IT.
IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A INTENSE PROCESS.
IF YOU GO IN AND SAY YOU WANT TO BUILD A HOUSE AND YOU WANT TO IMPACT WHAT'S ALLOWED UNDER NATIONWIDE, SAY HALF AN ACRE FOR NATIONWIDE PERMIT, OR YOU WANT TO DO THREE-QUARTERS OF AN ACRE, IF THEY SAY, HEY, HE'S GOING TO BE AN INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY, WE CAN SCALE IT BACK AND THAT'S WHAT THE NATIONWIDE PERMITS ARE, IS TO TRY TO SCALE BACK YOUR IMPACTS.
YOU CAN STILL HAVE A BIG ISSUED REQUIREMENTS, STUFF LIKE THAT, BUT IT'S LIKE OKAY, INSTEAD OF GOING THROUGH THIS PARTICULAR SIX MONTHS PROCESS, I'LL SCALE IT BACK AND GO THROUGH THIS.
IT MAY ONLY TAKE LIKE TWO MONTHS TO GET TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS.
THAT'S WHY YOU DO THE DELINEATION IN THE FIRST PLACE.
WHAT ARE YOU IMPACTING? WHAT DO YOU HAVE ON YOUR PROPERTY? THAT'S WHAT THE DELINEATION IS.
THE ONLY AGENCY THEY CAN APPROVE WETLAND DELINEATION IS THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS.
I CAN PROBABLY SPEND EIGHT HOURS TALKING ABOUT THIS.
>> [LAUGHTER] THE CORPS IS THE ONLY FEDERAL AGENCY THAT YOU HAVE TO GO
[00:40:03]
GET A PERMIT FROM TO DO PROJECTS ON YOUR PRIVATE PROPERTY.YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO THE FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO EPA.
IT'S ACROSS THE ENTIRE COUNTRY WHEREVER IT IS, WHAT THEY CALL UNITED STATES.
WHAT THEY USED TO WETLAND DELINEATIONS TO DESIGNATE RIVERS, QUICK STREAMS IS VERY STRICT.
FIRST QUESTION IS, WHERE'S THE WETLAND BOUNDARY? HERE ON THIS LITTLE SLIDES, YOU'VE GOT DEEP WATER HABITAT, MOVING UP YOU GOT WETLANDS, AND THEN YOU GOT NON WETLANDS.
THAT'S JUST VERY SIMPLISTIC OVERVIEW.
IT GETS A LITTLE BIT MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT.
>> THAT WAS SO EASY [LAUGHTER] > WHEN SOMEBODY GOES OUT AND DOES A WETLAND DELINEATION, THE CORPS, SOMEBODY HIRED A CONSULTANT, THEY'RE LOOKING AT THREE PARAMETERS.
THEY'RE LOOKING AT HYDROPHILIC VEGETATION, HYDRICH SOILS, AND WETLAND HYDROLOGY.
AN AREA HAS TO HAVE ALL THREE OF THESE TO BE CONSIDERED A WETLAND.
YOU CAN HAVE HYDROLOGY IN SOILS, IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE VEGETATION, THEN YOU JUST KNOW A WETLAND.
WHEN SOMEBODY DOES A WETLAND DELINEATION, THEY'LL DIG A PIT AND LOOK AT THE SOILS, THEY'LL LOOK AT THE VEGETATION AND THEN THE HYDROLOGY.
YOU CAN GO OUT THERE IN AUGUST.
WHAT THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS, ARMOR OF THE CORPS IS CALLED THE ENGINEER OF RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT CENTER, ARCTIC IN VICKSBURG, MISSISSIPPI.
THEY'VE DEVELOPED WAYS THAT YOU CAN GO OUT THERE AND AUGUST AND SAY, IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY BLACK STANDING WATER, HERE'S WHAT YOU CAN LOOK AT.
IT'S DEFENSIBLE AND COY, THINGS LIKE THAT.
HERE'S WHAT YOU CAN LOOK AT TO SEE IF THERE'S WATER HERE DURING THE GROWING SEASON, WHAT WE'VE DESIGNATED WHEN YOU NEED TO HAVE THE WATER.
>> IN ESSENCE, LIKE YOU HAVE, I THINK IS ONE OF THE PLACES WHERE THE PLANTS ARE SOME CAME UP WHERE IT LOOKED LIKE WETLANDS BUT CHARLES SAID IT WASN'T WETLANDS.
I THINK THAT'S BECAUSE ONE OF THE THREE AND I THINK IT WAS THE VEGETATION SHOULDN'T SOLIDIFY [OVERLAPPING]
>> UNLESS IT'S THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS, THERE SHOULD BE NOBODY SENT AS ANOTHER WAY.
>> NO. WHEN I WAS A CONSULTANT AND I WILL DO A WETLAND DELINEATION, AND I WOULD SAY WE THINK THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE, BUT THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS HAS THE FINAL SAY, SO THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL WETLAND DETERMINATION OR DELINEATION.
THE CORPS HAS THE FINAL SAY SO.
THERE SHOULD BE NOBODY SAYING THIS IS A WETLAND, THIS IS NOT A WETLAND.
WE CAN SAY IT MEETS ALL THE CRITERIA, WE'VE DONE DATASHEETS, WE'VE DONE EVERYTHING.
CORPS CAN'T DO ALL OF THESE, SO THEY HAVE MANUALS OUT THERE.
YOU HAVE WETLAND ON THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE, NOT WETLAND.
YOU SEE WHERE YOU HAVE HYDROPHILIC VEGETATION, SOME OF IT GOES TO THE NON-WET.
THEN YOU HAVE SOILS, THAT WHITE LINE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE AND THEN HYDROLOGY, SO IT'S MORE OVER THERE ON THE NON-WETLAND.
RIGHT THERE WHERE ALL THREE OF THEM ARE, SO YOUR LIMITING FACTOR WOULD BE YOUR SOILS.
THAT IS WHERE YOUR WETLAND BOUNDARY WOULD BE, EVEN THOUGH YOU COULD HAVE HYDROPHILIC VEGETATION AND HYDROLOGY STANDING WATER, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE THE SOILS.
NOW THE SOILS ARE PROBABLY MOST OF THE TIME YOUR LIMITING FACTOR BECAUSE IT TAKES SO LONG BECAUSE THERE'S CHEMICAL REACTIONS WHEN THERE'S STANDING WATER AND PLANTS ARE GROWING, IT PULLS IRON, IT PULLS NUTRIENTS OUT.
THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT TAKES THE LONGEST TO CONVERT FROM.
I CAN PUT A DAM UP AND HOLD SOME WATER BACK OR LEVEE UP AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE WETLAND VEGETATION COMING UP.
YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE HYDROLOGY, BUT IT'S GOING TO TAKE MANY YEARS FOR THE SOILS.
AND THE SAME IS IF I BREAK A LEVEE, THE VEGETATION, IT WOULDN'T HAVE THE HYDROLOGY WITHIN THE VEGETATION CAN CONVERT, BUT THEN IT WILL TAKE A LONG TIME FOR THE SOILS TO CONVERT OVER.
>> BUT YOU JUST NEED ONE OF THE THREE [OVERLAPPING] ALL THREE.
>> YOU HAVE TO HAVE ALL THREE OF THEM.
IF YOU ARE LACKING ANY ONE, THEN YOU DO NOT HAVE A WETLAND UNDER THE COURT'S JURISDICTION.
>> IT CAN BE A WETLAND BY UNDER THE STATE DEFINITION, IT CAN BE A WETLAND CITY DEFINITION.
BUT TO REQUIRE A PERMIT FROM THE COURT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE ALL THREE OF THOSE.
>> WHO MAKES THAT DETERMINATION?
[00:45:01]
>> SO IF SOMEONE SUBMITS A PERMIT TO BUILD OR TO PUT INTO HOUSING SUBDIVISION, WHO MAKES THE DETERMINATION, IF THERE'S A WETLAND THERE OR NOT?
>> WHAT IS SUBMITTED TO THE CITY FIRST?
>> WE DO THIS OUTSIDE OF OUR PURVIEW. [OVERLAPPING]
>> DOES IT GET SENT TO THE COURT TO MAKE THAT DETERMINATION?
>> IF THEY WANT TO. I MEAN THEY DON'T HAVE TO.
SO THERE'S NO POINT IF THEY WANT TO.
THE ONLY TIME WE HAD TO DO A DELINEATION TO GO BACK TO WHAT I SAID IS IF YOU ARE GOING TO DISCHARGE/DRAIN YOUR FILM MATERIAL INTO WATERS NOT IN THE STATES, IF YOU'RE GOING TO DISCHARGE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET A WETLAND DELINEATION.
>> SO YOU COULD BUILD ON THE WETLANDS, THERE IS NO PROBLEM AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT PLACEMENT OR FILL OR DREDGE MATERIALS ON THE WAY.
>> IF YOU WANTED TO BRING IN MATERIAL TO LEVEL IT OFF, THAT'S FILL MATERIAL, AND SO, YOU'D HAVE TO GO GET A PERMIT FROM THE COURT.
BUT WE CAN'T SAY THAT YOU NEED A PERMIT FROM THE COURT JUST LIKE THE COURT IS NOT GOING TO SAY IF SOMEBODY GOES IN WITH A HOUSE AND SAY IT'S IN A WETLAND, IT'S IN THE BEACHFRONT CONSTRUCTION AREA AND THEY GET A PERMIT FROM THE COURT TO BUILD A HOUSE IN THE WETLAND, THE COURT IS NOT GOING TO SAY, OKAY, WE'RE GIVING YOU THE BEACHFRONT CONSTRUCTION PERMIT.
IT'S THE PUBLIC'S RESPONSIBILITY TO KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE TO GO GET.
>>> SO IF WE HAVE A CONSTRUCTION COME UP TO US A PERMIT AND WE ARE SUSPECTING THAT IT'S A WETLAND AND THEY'RE GOING TO DISCHARGE, A GOOD EXAMPLE WOULD BE, WHAT WAS THAT WEIRD ROAD? HAD A LITTLE BIT OF ROAD, BUT WE THOUGHT WAS WETLANDS AND WE WEREN'T SURE, BUT WE KNOW THAT IN ORDER FOR THEM TO BUILD, THEY HAVE TO DISCHARGE MATERIAL INTO WHAT WE CONSIDER A WETLAND.
WHAT IS OUR ROLE THERE WHEN IT COMES TO THE WETLANDS AND HOW DO WE MOVE FORWARD WHEN WE PERCEIVE THAT PERHAPS THERE IS A WETLANDS THERE?
>> WE DON'T HAVE ONE. [OVERLAPPING]
>> WE DON'T REGULATE THAT BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THAT AUTHORITY.
ONLY THE COURT HAS THAT AUTHORITY SAYING THIS IS A WETLAND AND YOU NEED A PERMIT.
THEY'RE THE ONLY AGENCY THAT DOES IT.
NOW IF THEY GO OUT THERE, AS A PUBLIC AGENCY, IF WE SEE THAT, IF WE EXPECT SOMETHING AND WE SEE THEM CONSTRUCTING, THEN WE CAN REPORT AN UNAUTHORIZED ACTIVITY THEN THE COURT CAN FOLLOW UP, BUT WE CANNOT DRIVE IT.
WHAT MY ROLE WAS WHEN I WAS AT THE COURT WAS ENFORCEMENT COMPLIANCE, AND THAT'S WHY I'M REALLY BIG ON COMPLIANCE IS IF WE ISSUE, [OVERLAPPING] [LAUGHTER] UNDER THE ENFORCEMENT, IF I WENT UP TO SOMEBODY'S PROPERTY, SOMEBODY SAID, HEY, SOMEBODY IS FILLING IN A WETLAND AND THEY DON'T HAVE A PERMIT AND I WENT OUT THERE WITH THEM.
LEGALLY, WE COULD NOT TELL THOSE PEOPLE TO STOP, IT'S PRIVATE PROPERTY, AND UNTIL WE DO A DELINEATION, UNTIL WE GO THROUGH THE PROCESS, I CANNOT ROLL UP THERE AND SAY, STOP.
NOW WE COULD RECOMMEND, AND WE WOULD DO IS WE WOULD SAY, I WOULD RECOMMEND YOU CEASE AND DESIST DOING THIS UNTIL WE DETERMINE IF YOU NEED SOMETHING".
BUT EVEN THE COURT CAN'T GO OUT AND SAY, STOP.
YOU HAVE TO BECAUSE IF I WENT THERE AND I SEE THIS, SAY A SOIL LIKE THIS, AND I'M STANDING AT THE EDGE OF WHERE THE VEGETATION IS, HYDRAULIC VEGETATION, I DON'T HAVE THE HYDROLOGY AND I DON'T HAVE THE SOILS.
IF IT APPEARS TO BE A WETLAND, MAY NOT BE A WETLAND.
I SAID IT HAS TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS.
>> FOR US, WHEN WE'RE DEALING WITH OUR FELLOW CITIZENS, I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO KNOW, AND WE'VE HEARD ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS, OH THIS IS A WETLAND, THIS IS A WETLAND, THIS IS THIS, YOU ACTUALLY DO THIS TO WETLANDS.
WHERE WE ARE IS WE REALLY HAVE NO AUTHORITY WHETHER IT'S A WETLANDS OR NOT, WE'RE JUST SIMPLY LOOKING AT THE PERMIT FOR WHAT IT IS AND IT'S NARROW SCOPE.
>> SO PROBABLY A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY IT'S A WETLAND IS LOOKING AT THIS RIGHT HERE, SO THAT'S WHY I'LL PUT THIS UP, THIS IS MY LAST SLIDE.
THIS NATIONAL WETLAND INVENTORY MAP, WHAT THIS IS IS THIS IS DONE BY THE FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE.
YOU HAVE PEOPLE LOOKING AT AERIAL PHOTOS, SAYING WHAT THEY THINK, AND THEY CAN ALSO LOOK AT SOIL SURVEYS AND THINGS LIKE THAT BUT THEY THINK THEY ARE SAYING THESE AREAS MAY BE WETLAND.
BUT UNTIL YOU GO OUT THERE AND YOU DIG HOLES, YOU LOOK IN THE SOILS, YOU DO ALL OF THAT, THE COURT WOULD NOT TAKE THIS AND SAY, IF I WENT OUT THERE,
[00:50:02]
AND SAY I'M USING THIS AS MY WETLAND DELINEATION, THE COURT WOULD SAY, NO.>> YOU'RE POINTING TO ONE OF THE LIMITING FACTORS IS THAT, IT'S NOT UP TO US TO TELL THEM WHERE THOSE WET BECAUSE WE CAN'T LITIGATE IT, ONLY THE COURT CAN.
SOMEBODY CAN GO THERE AND LOOK AT THAT AND GO, WELL I'M JUST GOING TO GO AHEAD AND BUILD OVER IT AND PUT BUILDINGS ALL OVER THERE AND DO WHATEVER THE HECK I WANT TO DO BECAUSE THAT'S NOT AN OFFICIAL WETLAND NOW.
>> SO IF THE COURT COMES OUT THERE.
>> WHAT THE COURT CAN DO IS, SAY SOMEBODY WENT OUT THERE AND LET'S SAY, HALF OF THOSE GREEN AREAS WERE WETLANDS.
LET'S JUST SAY THEY WERE WETLANDS AND SOMEBODY BUILT OVER WITHOUT GETTING A COURT PERMIT.
SO THE COURT CAN PULL UP THAT INFORMATION, THEY CAN USE THIS INFORMATION BECAUSE IF IT'S ADMINISTERED, THEY CAN USE THAT INFORMATION, THEY CAN GO AND LET'S SAY THE LITTLE ONE AT THE UPPER SCREEN.
THAT ONE WASN'T, HASN'T BEEN IMPACTED.
THEY CAN ACTUALLY GO DIG SOLO BITS THERE AND SAY IT'S THE SAME TOPOGRAPHY, IT HAS ALL THE CHARACTERISTICS.
THEY CAN LOOK AT SOIL SURVEYS.
THEY CAN LOOK AT PAST HISTORIC DATA AND THEN THEY CAN SAY, WE THINK THIS IS WHAT IT IS.
IT MAY NOT BE AS BIG AS THAT, BUT THEY CAN SAY THIS IS WHAT WE THINK IT IS.
THE CORE HAS THAT CAPABILITY OF AN ATYPICAL SITUATION AND SOMEBODY GOES IN THERE, BUT ALL THOSE DECISIONS ON WETLANDS IMPACTS IS ALL ON THE CORE.
>> IS PART OF THIS DISCUSSION TO DETERMINE IF WE CAN ADD SOMETHING TO OUR PROCESS, IF WE SHOULD ADD SOMETHING TO OUR PROCESS, IF THERE SHOULD BE A STEP ADDED ABOUT WETLAND DELINEATION? IS THAT SUPPOSED TO BE PART OF THIS DISCUSSION?
>> RIGHT NOW, WE'VE GOT A FEW MINUTES LEFT.
WELL, AND I THINK THAT'S THE QUESTION IS THAT FROM A CITY PERSPECTIVE, WHAT WE JUST HEARD FROM KYLE, IS THAT THEY CAN'T SAY YOU ARE REQUIRED TO GO GET A COURT PERMIT.
>> THE COURT CAN'T EVEN SAY THAT [LAUGHTER].
>> [OVERLAPPING] THE COURT CAN'T SAY THAT.
>> THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WE CAN DO, SO WE SHOULD NEVER RAISE A QUESTION ABOUT WETLANDS AGAIN.
>> THAT WAS MY POINT. THAT WAS EXACTLY MY POINT.
OUR FOCUS IS NARROWLY DEFINED BY THE PERMIT.
WHATEVER THEIR PERMITTING IS REQUIRING, AND IF THEY'VE MET THE CITY'S MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS, THEN WE'RE PRETTY MUCH STUCK IN THAT LANE, IS MORE LIKE HORSE WITH BLINDERS.
WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO SEE ANY PEOPLE ONTO THE LEFT OR RIGHT.
WE'RE JUST SUPPOSED TO BE LOOKING STRAIGHT AHEAD.
>> I GUESS THE QUESTION TO THE CITY THOUGH IS THAT IF YOU SEE SOMETHING THAT IS OBVIOUSLY, IT APPEARS TO BE.
YOU COULD AS A CITY AGENCY SAY, I'M HIGHLY RECOMMENDING THAT YOU GO GET IT [OVERLAPPING].
>> IF I SEE SOMETHING OUT THERE, WELL, I'M BEING IMPACTED OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT OR PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT OR WE CAN ADVISE PEOPLE THAT HEY, THERE'S NOTHING, JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T BEEN RECONSTRUCTION.
WE DO HAVE OUR BUILDING, WE HAVE REACH FOR CONSTRUCTION THAT THIS DOES NOT HOLD IT, YOU HAVE OTHER [OVERLAPPING] MALLS.
THEY WANT TO CHECK THIS, THIS, AND THIS.
>> WELL, IT'S NOT JUST BEACH FRONT.
IT'S THESE PLAQUES, THE PLAQUES ARE THE ONE WHERE IT'S COME UP RECENTLY.
>>I THINK YOU CAN ASK JUST FOR INFORMATION.
IF YOU'RE CURIOUS ABOUT WHERE THEY ARE IN THERE COURT PERMIT PROCESS, YOU CAN ASK THAT, BUT YOU COULDN'T USE IT AS A REASON TO DENY A PLAQUE BECAUSE THERE IS NO REGULATION TO APPLY.
>> ONE THING TO REMEMBER ALSO ABOUT WETLAND DELINEATION, WHEN SOMEBODY GET A WETLAND DELINEATION FROM THE CORNER, IMPROVED WETLAND DELINEATION, IT IS ONLY GOOD FOR FIVE YEARS.
THESE ARE BIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS. WE CAN HAVE A HURRICANE COMING THROUGH AND CHANGE IT UP.
WE CAN HAVE DROUGHT, WE CAN HAVE RAINFALL, CLIMATE CHANGE, HIGH WATER LEVEL, HIGHER WATER TABLE.
APPROVED JURISDICTION TERMINATIONS FROM THE COURT ARE ONLY GOOD FOR FIVE YEARS AND THEN THEY ONLY NEED TO KNOW WHERE THE WETLANDS ARE IF THEY ARE GOING TO DISCHARGE INTO THAT WETLAND.
>> DISCHARGED INTO THE WETLAND [OVERLAPPING] OR PROPOSED TO FILL.
THAT'S WHY WE DIDN'T GET TO DISCHARGE OR DREDGE OR FILL MATERIAL.
IF YOU EXCAVATE, THAT IS NOT UNDER THE COURT'S DEFINITION,
[00:55:01]
AND THE SUPREME COURT HAS RULED ON THIS IS EXCAVATION IS NOT CONSIDERED AS A DISCHARGE.>> WHAT'S THE DEFINITION OF EXCAVATION? [OVERLAPPING]
>> DIGGING A HOLE VERSUS DUMPING STUFF IN IT.
>> [OVERLAPPING] IF I GO UP THERE, IF I HAVE A WETLAND AND IT'S THIS CIRCLE WETLAND AND I WANT TO DIG A POND, LIVESTOCK POND, AND I HAVE A DELINEATION OF HERE'S WHERE YOUR WETLAND IS AND IF I GO OUT THERE WHERE THEY SAY A TRACK OUT AND I PULL THAT MATERIAL OUT AND PUT IT OVER AND I PUT IT IN THAT UPLAND.
THAT'S EXCAVATION. THAT'S WHAT THIS QUESTION.
NOW, IT'S NOT LAND CLEARING, IT'S NOT GOING OUT THERE.
I HAVE TREES AND I'M GOING OUT THERE WITH THE BULLDOZER, PUSHING IT UP, STOCK PILLING. THAT'S NOT EXCAVATION.
IT IS IF THERE'S A DITCH, A CANAL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT THAT'S GROWN UP AND YOU EXCAVATED THAT, YOU'RE CLEANING IT OUT, YOU'RE DOING THAT. THAT'S EXCAVATION.
>> THE CITY DOES HAVE RULES ABOUT EXCAVATION.
WE DO HAVE SAND HARVESTING REGULATIONS.
WE HAVE REGULATIONS ABOUT BUILDING NEW CANALS, BUT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE REGULATED.
>> BUT THE COURT [OVERLAPPING].
>> DIGGING AND PILING IS NOT EXCAVATION PILING.
>> IF YOU'RE DIGGING A PILE AND SAY YOU HAVE A POST DIG AND YOU'RE DIGGING A PILING AND YOU HAVE SOME OF THAT GOING OUT AND IT'S IN A WETLAND IS A DISCHARGE, BUT IT'S MONITORED, PROBABLY MEETS A NATIONWIDE PERMIT.
>> YOU DON'T REALLY DIG BIG PILINGS, YOU REALLY POUND THE BIG PILINGS.
>> THEY'RE NOT REALLY DIGGING. [OVERLAPPING]
>> I CAN GO AND GET REALLY DOWN IN THE WEEDS AND [OVERLAPPING].
LOOK, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME BECAUSE THIS IS OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CONSERVATION AND SOME OF THE ROLES THAT WE HAVE AS PLANNING COMMISSION.
I THINK THAT IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE UNDERSTAND HOW WE CAN PLAY IN OUR LANE.
WHEN I WAS IN LITTLE ROCK, WE SAW A LOT OF DEVELOPMENTS COME IN AND WE SAW A LOT OF PEOPLE COME IN AND GET PERMITS TO DO.
WHEN SOMEBODY GETS A PERMIT, AN INDIVIDUAL PERMIT, THEIR PERMIT IS GOOD FOR, CONSTRUCTION IS GOOD FOR FIVE YEARS.
BUT AT LEAST I SAW A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO COME IN 2005, 2006 WITH DEVELOPMENTS.
THEY'D GO TO THE PRIMARY PROCESS HOUSING CRASH OF 2007, AND A LOT OF THINGS DIDN'T GET BUILT.
THE COURT CAN'T SAY DO THIS BECAUSE SOMEBODY MAY HAVE A LOT OF MONEY, WE HIT A RECESSION, THEY MAY NEVER DO IT SO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN'T PUT THAT BURDEN AND SAY, YOU HAVE TO DO IT UNLESS YOU ARE PUTTING SOMETHING IN THEIR PROPOSAL, PUT SOMETHING IN THAT TRIGGERS DOING A DELINEATION AND GETTING A PERMIT.
>> JEFFREY, I DON'T THINK WE'RE DONE WITH THIS TOPIC.
I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BLEED OVER INTO THE DISCUSSION THIS AFTERNOON TOO.
>> YEAH. I'M SORRY. WE'RE GOING TO ADJOURN OUR WORKSHOP SO WE CAN GO SET UP AND THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.