[ Zoning Board of Adjustments Workshop on March 17, 2021.]
[00:00:03]
3:00 O'CLOCK AND WE HAVE A WORKSHOP TODAY.I'D LIKE TO CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER, PLEASE.
[OVERLAPPING] IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE A QUORUM SO WE'RE IN GOOD SHAPE.
AS FAR AS WE HAVE A COUPLE OUT OF THEM FOR DISCUSSION HERE.
I UNDERSTAND YOU ALL WANT TO DO THE MOTIONS FIRST. IS THAT CORRECT?
>> YEAH. IF WE COULD HAVE CATHERINE, I THINK, SHE WAS GOING TO START WITH THE ROLL CALL OF FOLKS. YOU CAN DO THAT.
>> [OVERLAPPING] YEAH, ROLL CALL JUST FOR THE RECORD.
>> BOARD MEMBER CLEMENT? MR. CLEMENT, I THINK YOU'RE MUTED. MR. CLEMENT?
>> OKAY, MR. CLEMENT IS PRESENT. CHAIRPERSON GALLETTI.
>> THEN BOARD MEMBER WATFORD IS NOT PRESENT AND NOR IS COUNCIL MEMBER MR. QUIROGA, I'LL MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT IF THERE, TO JOIN US.
[NOISE] WE'RE JUST TAKING THE ROLL CALL ROBERT.
>> WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE DISCUSSION THEN.
LOOKS LIKE EVERYBODY CHECKED IN.
>> HE DID, OKAY. WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE, MAKING THE MOTIONS, IS THAT CORRECT?
>> SURE. WE'D A REQUEST TO THE LAST MEETING TO REVIEW THE MOTION GUIDES FOR MAKING MOTIONS.
I'M DISPLAYING ONE ON THE SCREEN NOW AND THAT'S FOR MAKING MOTIONS FOR VARIANCES.
IF I CAN MAKE THAT A LITTLE BIGGER.
VARIANCES IS THE BULK OF OUR WORK, HERE AT THE ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.
THIS GUIDE PROVIDES SOME STRUCTURE FOR MAKING THE MOTION.
THE CODE IS WRITTEN SO THAT EACH ITEM WITHIN THE CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL HAS TO BE A FONT BY THE ZONING BOARD IN THE MOTION, AND ALSO THAT THE BOARD HAS TO FIND THAT THERE IS A SPECIAL CONDITION AND EXPRESS WITH THAT SPECIAL CONDITION IS.
[NOISE] THIS MOTION, GUIDE WOULD ALLOW THE MOTION MAKER TO GO THROUGH EACH ONE OF THE BULLETS AND MAKE AN AFFIRMATIVE STATEMENT.
THEN ALSO PROVIDES A SECTION FOR SPECIAL CONDITION.
THE FIRST PART OF THE MOTION WOULD BE, I MAKE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL DUE TO THE FOLLOWING AND THEN YOU WOULD STATE THE FOLLOWING.
EVERYTHING THAT'S WRITTEN HERE.
IF THAT'S WHAT THE COMMISSION HAD FOUND AND THAT WOULD BE THAT THOSE SPECIAL CONDITION OR CONDITIONS THAT EXIST ON THE PROPERTY THAT DO NOT GENERALLY EXIST ON OTHER PROPERTIES IN THE SAME ZONING DISTRICT.
THAT SPECIAL CONDITION IS AND THEN THE MOTION MAKER WOULD FILL IN THE BLANK.
THEN YOU WOULD CONTINUE DOWN HITTING EACH ONE OF THESE BULLET POINTS AND READING THE INFORMATION THEREIN.
>> FROM NOW ON YOU WANT THIS TO BE THIS FORMAL AND NORMALLY WE PICK OUT THE ONES THAT, ARE APPLICABLE FOR IT.
BUT YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO GO DOWN THE ONES THAT ARE NOT GOING TO BE USED.
>> I THINK THIS IS WHAT THE STATUTE REQUIRES.
BUT HOW YOU PHRASE IT CAN STILL MEET THE REQUIREMENT.
NOT NECESSARILY IN THIS FORM LIKE FASHION AS WRITTEN HERE.
BUT I THINK FOR TRAINING PURPOSES, TRY TO GO THROUGH THIS FORMAL FASHION BECAUSE YOU CAN'T GO WRONG WITH IT.
THERE ARE TIMES WHERE I WILL STEP IN FOR CLARITY SAKE AND NOT TO LEAD THE COMMISSION AT ANY DIRECTION.
BUT JUST FOR CLARITY SAKE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SALIENT POINTS ARE HIT.
BECAUSE AGAIN, AND IF I CAN CATHERINE FOR A QUICK SECOND, [NOISE] WHAT'S IMPORTANT ABOUT THIS BOARD IS THAT YOU ARE A QUASI-JUDICIAL BOARD.
[00:05:04]
YOUR RULINGS, YOUR DETERMINATION, YOUR FINDINGS COULD ONLY BE APPEALED TO A HIGHER COURT.IT DOESN'T GO TO THE CITY COUNCIL.
IT DOESN'T GO TO PLANNING COMMISSION OR LANDMARK.
WHATEVER DETERMINATION THAT YOU GUYS COME UP WITH ENDS HERE.
THE NEXT STEP IS UP AND OUT NECESSARILY OF THE CITY OF NORMS, THE DISTRICT COURT ROOM, THE COUNTY COURT ROOM.
THAT'S WHY IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO HIT THESE SALIENT POINTS.
I WILL ALSO SAY THAT YOU SHOULD HIT THE SALIENT POINTS IF YOU DON'T FIND FOR VARIANCE.
I'VE BEEN ASKING OR INTIMATING THAT, IF YOU'RE GOING TO DENY A VARIANCE, IT'S IMPORTANT TO PUT ON THE RECORD WHY THAT'S BEING DENIED.
BECAUSE AGAIN, EVEN A DENIAL CAN ALSO BE APPEALED TO A HIGHER COURT.
I WOULD TRY TO TRY AND HIT THOSE SALIENT POINTS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
YOU CAN PUT A LITTLE BIT OF YOUR OWN FLAVOR INTO IT.
BUT [LAUGHTER] I WOULD TRY AND KEEP TO THIS FORMAT.
DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION?
>> IT DOES SEEM LIKE A LOT TO GO THROUGH, BUT LIKE DONNA SAID, IF WE STICK TO THIS FORMAT, THEN WE WILL HAVE A GUARANTEED THAT WE HIT EVERYTHING THAT WE NEED FOR YOU IN THE MOTION.
>> IT'S ACTUALLY OKAY TO SAY THAT, THEY DIDN'T JUST LOOKING AT ONE OF THEM, THE REQUESTED VARIANCE DOES NOT HAVE A DETRIMENTAL IMPACT UPON THE CURRENT FUTURE, USE OF THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES, PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE SERVICES.
THERE MAY NOT BE ANY EVIDENCE TO THAT PRESENTED, AND IT WOULD BE NO EVIDENCE WAS PRESENTED THAT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
SOMETIMES IF THE SITUATION DOESN'T FALL WITHIN ONE OF THESE CATEGORIES, THEN YOU CAN SAY, "I DON'T FIND ONE WAY OR THE OTHER OR I DON'T FIND THAT EVIDENCE WAS PRESENTED THAT IT WAS DETRIMENTAL UPON PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE OR I DO FIND THAT THERE WAS EVIDENCE PRESENTED THAT IT WAS DETRIMENTAL IMPACTS OF PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE." I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR FOR ME IN MAKING MOTIONS OR ADVISING THE COMMISSION ON MAKING MOTIONS IS TO TAKE YOUR TIME.
I THINK OFTENTIMES FOLKS FEEL THAT THEY'RE RUSHED TO MAKE A MOTION AND THEY'RE TRYING SO HARD TO GET IT RIGHT.
IT IS OKAY TO PRINT THIS OUT, TO PUT YOUR NOTES ON IT, AND THEN TO SAY, "COMMISSIONS, BEAR WITH ME.
LET ME TAKE A MINUTE JUST SO THAT I CAN GET MY THOUGHTS IN THE MOTION THAT I WANT TO SAY CORRECT." THEN AND THEN SPEAK IT.
IT'S JUST A MATTER OF BEING GETTING MORE COMFORTABLE WITH WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO SAY AND TAKE YOUR TIME TO DO IT.
JUST TAKE YOUR TIME AND TAKE GOOD NOTES, AND THAT WILL MAKE MOTION MAKING EASIER.
I BELIEVE WILL MAKE MOTION MAKING EASIER. I'M SORRY, CATHERINE.
>> NO, I THINK THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT.
HERE AS MUCH TIME AS WE NEED AND IT'S BETTER TO TAKE YOUR TIME, AND I THINK IT'S A REALLY GOOD IDEA TO PRINT IT OUT, HAVE IT IN FRONT OF YOU SO THAT YOU CAN TAKE NOTES ON IT.
IS THERE A CHANCE THAT THE PLANNING STAFF THAT WE CAN SEE THE STAFF, SEE WHO'S SPEAKING.
ONLY THE COMMISSIONERS ARE SHOWN ON THE SCREEN AND THE STAFF IS NOT.
>> I THINK THAT'S REALLY FOR PURPOSES OF SWAG IT AND HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE VIDEO SHARING AND WHATNOT.
I THINK IT MESSES WITH THE VID WITH START WITH THE BEAD, BUT THE FEED, IN MANY RESPECTS.
SOMETIMES I DON'T HAVE A CAMERA ACTUALLY.
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SEE MY BEAUTIFUL IMAGE FOR A MINUTE.
BUT I KNOW THAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE GETTING CAMERAS.
EVEN WHEN I DO GET A CAMERA, I'M STILL TOLD THAT I HAVE TO NOT SHARE, AND IT'S JUST THE COMMISSIONERS.
>> I THINK THAT'S A POOR DECISION ON SOMEONE'S PART.
BUT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ZOOM AND ITS SHORT COMINGS, WHEN CAN WE MEET IN PERSON?
[00:10:03]
THAT IS NOT A PART OF THIS WORKSHOP THOUGH.>> WE CAN'T GET IN THE BUILDING TO TALK TO YOU AND CALLING HASN'T SEEMED TO HELP SO, WE'RE NOT REALLY SURE WHEN WE CAN ASK THESE QUESTIONS.
>> I'M NOT QUITE SURE. [OVERLAPPING].
>> WE'RE ALWAYS AVAILABLE BY PHONE AND BY E-MAIL.
YOU CAN ALWAYS JUST DROP US A LINE AND WE'LL GET BACK TO YOU.
>> WELL I DID THAT, MAYBE I DID IT WRONG.
>> MICELLE AND MAYBE WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT AFTERWARDS BECAUSE, I NEED SOME CLARITY ON WHAT IS YOUR QUESTION.
>> LIKE YOU SAY GET BACK TO WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT HERE AS FAR AS MAKING THE MOTION.
WHAT I FOUND, FOR ME IS I WILL READ OVER THIS PREVIOUSLY, GIVE IT SOME TIME AND MAKE MY NOTES ON HERE WHETHER THIS IS APPLICABLE OR THIS MAKE SENSE OF THIS DOES NOT.
A LOT OF TIMES BY DOING THAT, I'VE ALREADY GOT THAT INFORMATION DOWN.
WHEN I HEAR FROM THE OWNER HERE, FROM THE CONTRACTOR, I HERE FROM THE CITY AND EVERYTHING, EVERYBODY ELSE'S OPINION.
I'LL DEFINITELY GO IN THERE AND CHANGE IT.
I DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE MY MOTION READY TO GO IF I WANTED TO DO FOR DENIAL OR AN APPROVAL.
BUT I ACTUALLY GO THROUGH AND MAKE MY LITTLE JOT NOTES AND THEN I WOULD SAY PROBABLY A THIRD OF THE TIME OR FOURTH OF THE TIME IT GETS CHANGED BECAUSE I HEAR MORE INFORMATION THAN WHEN I'M GIVING OUT THE NOTES.
DOES THAT SEEMED TO WORK FOR PEOPLE OR WOULD LIKE TO ADOPT THAT GO AHEAD.
OR NOT ADOPTED. LET ME KNOW WHY. WELL, WHAT HAPPENED?
>> I THINK FOLKS ARE JUST THINKING ABOUT WHAT YOU JUST SAID [LAUGHTER].
IF THERE ISN'T ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON WHAT WAS JUST SAID, THEN I'M GOING TO ASK CATHERINE TO CONTINUE. [OVERLAPPING]
>> THE SECOND PART OF THE HANDOUT FOR VARIANCES IS A GUIDE FOR MAKING A MOTION FOR DENIAL.
LIKE DONALD SAID, IF YOU'RE MAKING A MOTION FOR DENIAL, IT STILL NEEDS TO BE EXPRESSED AS TO WHICH ONE OF THE CONDITIONS IS NOT BEING MET.
TO MAKE A MOTION FOR DENIAL, YOU CAN SIMPLY STATE, I MAKE A MOTION FOR DENIAL DUE TO THE FOLLOWING, AND THEN STATE ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING: THAT THERE'S NOT A SPECIAL CONDITION, THAT THE HARDSHIP IS SELF-IMPOSED, THE HARDSHIP IS BASED ON FINANCIAL CONSIDERATIONS, CONVENIENCE, OR INCONVENIENCE, THE REQUESTED VARIANCE WOULD HAVE A DETRIMENTAL IMPACT UPON ONE OF THESE THREE ITEMS, THE DEGREE OF VARIANCE REQUESTED IS GREATER THAN IS NECESSARY TO GRANT RELIEF FROM THE HARDSHIP, AND OR THE VARIANCE IS BEING USED TO CIRCUMVENT OTHER PROCEDURES AND STANDARDS.
UNLIKE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL, WHICH HAS TO GO THROUGH AND AFFIRM EACH ONE OF THE CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL, I THINK THE MOTION FOR DENIAL CAN BE MORE STREAMLINED AND IT JUST NEEDS TO TOUCH ON THE CRITERIA THAT ARE NOT BEING MET.
ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT MOTION FOR DENIAL? ANOTHER TYPE OF COMMON MOTION IS THE MOTION FOR DEFERRAL.
DEFERRAL IS IF THE CASE IS NOT READY TO BE HEARD AT THIS MEETING, IT NEEDS TO GO TO ANOTHER MEETING.
THE MOTION FOR DEFERRAL SHOULD INCLUDE, I MAKE A MOTION FOR DEFERRAL TO THE, AND THEN STATE THE MEETING DATE, TYPICALLY, JUST THE NEXT MEETING DATE.
YOU CAN ALWAYS ASK STAFF WHAT THAT DATE IS.
THEN IN ORDER FOR, THE REASON FOR THE DEFERRAL.
THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR OUR RECORD KEEPING IS THAT WE HAVE ON RECORD WHAT THE REASON IS.
THERE ARE A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES THERE.
I MAKE A MOTION FOR DEFERRALS TO THE OCTOBER 9TH, 2021 MEETING IN ORDER FOR MORE BOARD MEMBERS TO BE IN ATTENDANCE, AND THAT'S FAIRLY COMMON.
HOPEFULLY NOT SO MUCH ANYMORE NOW THAT WE HAVE A FULL COMMISSION, BUT IT CAN BE THAT THERE ARE ONLY FOUR BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT, AND THEN THE APPLICANT IS INFORMED THAT THEY CAN DEFER THEIR CASE IF THEY REQUEST IN ORDER FOR MORE BOARD MEMBERS TO BE IN ATTENDANCE.
THEN ANOTHER KIND OF MOTION COULD BE, I MAKE A MOTION FOR DEFERRAL TO THE OCTOBER 9TH, 2020 MEETING IN ORDER FOR THE APPLICANT TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.
THEN YOU WOULD WANT TO EXPLAIN WHAT THAT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION IS, SO THAT WE HAVE IT ON THE RECORD.
[00:15:01]
SO IT'S JUST IMPORTANT TO HINT WHICH MEETING DAY IS BEING DEFERRED TO, AND THEN OF COURSE, THE REASON.ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT MOTIONS FOR DEFERRAL? THE OTHER TYPE OF COMMON MOTIONS THAT WE HAVE ARE SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
WE'VE HAD RECENTLY A COUPLE OF CASES FOR SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS TO MAKE A NONCONFORMING LOCATION TO CONFORMING.
SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS HAVE THEIR OWN SET OF CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL WHICH ARE DIFFERENT FROM VARIANCES.
THIS MOTION GUIDE PROVIDES SOME GUIDANCE FOR MAKING A MOTION FOR APPROVAL FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO MAKE A PROPERTY FROM NONCONFORMING TO CONFORMING.
THAT WOULD BE, I MAKE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL DUE TO THE FACT THAT THE USE AS CONDUCTED AND MANAGED HAS BEEN DETERMINED TO BE A NONCONFORMING USE THAT HAS BEEN INTEGRATED INTO NEIGHBORHOOD'S FUNCTION OR THE ZONING DISTRICT'S FUNCTION, IF IT IS NOT IN OR ADJACENT TO RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD AS EVIDENCED BY THE FOLLOWING DEMONSTRATIONS.
THEN YOU WOULD STATE WHICH OF THESE BULLET POINTS MEETS THE CASE AS PRESENTED.
THEN FOR DENIAL, IT WOULD BE THE SAME SIMILAR STRUCTURE.
I MAKE A MOTION FOR DENIAL, BUT THEN THE NEGATIVE OF EACH OF THESE ITEMS, DUE TO THE FACT THAT THE USE AS CONDUCTED AND MANAGED HAS NOT BEEN DETERMINED TO BE A NONCONFORMING USE THAT HAS BEEN INTEGRATED INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S FUNCTION OR THE ZONING DISTRICT'S FUNCTION IF IT IS NOT IN OR ADJACENT TO A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD AS EVIDENCED LACKING THE FOLLOWING DEMONSTRATIONS.
THEN YOU WOULD VERBALIZE WHICH OF THE FOLLOWING HAVE NOT BEEN MET IN ORDER TO SUPPORT THE MOTION FOR DENIAL.
THEN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS IS THE SAME GUIDE FOR MAKING MOTIONS FOR DEFERRAL, WHICH INCLUDES THE MEETING DATE AND THE REASON FOR DEFERRAL.
DO WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON THIS? WELL, I'LL PUT THE COMMISSIONERS BACK UP.
>> HEY, CATHERINE. I DIDN'T SEE MOTION MAKING FOR APPEALS.
>> I'VE NOT DEVELOPED A GUIDE FOR MOTION MAKING FOR APPEALS, BUT WE CERTAINLY CAN WORK ON THAT AND PRESENT IT AT MAYBE THE NEXT MEETING.
>> OKAY. THEN I'LL JUST BRIEFLY SAY ANOTHER ASPECT OF YOUR DUTIES MAY BE LISTENING TO CASES THAT COME TO YOU FROM APPEAL, LANDMARK COMMISSION BEING ONE.
IN THOSE CASES, I'LL ALWAYS, OR WHOEVER THE ATTORNEY IS, BUT HOPEFULLY THAT WILL STILL BE ME, WILL ALWAYS LET THE COMMISSIONERS KNOW WHAT THEIR DUTIES ARE.
TYPICALLY, SAY THAT YOU AFFIRM DENY, OR MODIFY THE DECISION IS NOT TO CHANGE, FOR EXAMPLE, A LANDMARK DECISION BECAUSE YOU FEEL THAT LANDMARK WAS INCORRECT.
IT'S REALLY JUST TO LISTEN TO WHAT'S PRESENTED, AND TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT, AND IN MY EXAMPLE THIS LANDMARK, WHETHER OR NOT THEY DID THEIR DUTIES CORRECTLY IN COMING UP WITH THEIR DECISION.
BUT AGAIN, WE DON'T GET TOO MANY OF THOSE CASES, AND REST ASSURED WHEN YOU DO, I'LL ALWAYS INFORM THE COMMISSIONERS ABOUT WHAT THEIR ROLES ARE.
THANK YOU, CATHERINE. DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE, CATHERINE?
>> NO, I DON'T. I'M HAPPY TO ASK WHO HAS ANY QUESTION.
>> I GUESS WE HAVE A FEW MINUTES,
[00:20:01]
AND THE COMMISSIONER HAS JUST LET US KNOW HOW WE CAN HELP IN THIS SITUATION FOR YOU ALL TO BECOME EITHER MORE FAMILIAR, OR MORE COMFORTABLE.WE USED TO CALL THEM CHEAT SHEETS BACK IN THE DAY.
WE'RE HERE TO LISTEN TO ANY COMMENTS
>> I HAVE A QUESTION. THIS IS BARBARA.
WILL WE BE GETTING BINDER OR SOMETHING WITH RELEVANT CODES AND WHATEVER WE'RE USING IN THESE DECISION-MAKING PROCESSES SO WE CAN UNDERSTAND IT A LITTLE BIT BETTER? LIKE YOU'VE MENTIONED THE CODE IN THE BEGINNING BUT YOU DIDN'T SAY WHICH CODE IT WAS OR THE NUMBER IN.
IT SEEMS LIKE WE SHOULD BE FAMILIAR WITH THOSE CODES BEFORE WE'RE ASKED TO MAKE A DECISION.
>> SURE. THE CODE THAT WE'RE GENERALLY REFERRING TO IS THE LAND DEVELOPMENT REGULATION AND THAT'S AVAILABLE ON THE CITY'S WEBSITE.
IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN HAVING A PHYSICAL COPY, WE CAN CERTAINLY PRODUCE ONE FOR YOU.
I HAVE ONE, BUT I DON'T USUALLY USE IT BECAUSE I FIND IT EASIER TO SEARCH FOR WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR, BUT WE'RE MORE THAN HAPPY TO PROVIDE IT FOR YOU.
>> WHAT DO YOU MEAN SEARCH FOR WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR?
>> IF I WANT TO FIND INFORMATION ABOUT A FENCE, I USE THE ELECTRONIC VERSION SO I CAN JUST TYPE IN FENCE, OR I CAN TYPE IN THE SECTION NUMBER.
>> WELL, MAYBE WE COULD JUST HAVE A LITTLE CHEAT SHEET OF THOSE SITES SO WE CAN JUST DO THE SAME.
I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TO LOOK THEM UP.
I GUESS I CAN GO ON THE WEBSITE AND MAYBE FIND THEM.
>> YOU COULD DOWNLOAD THAT WHOLE LDR, WHICH I HAVE, JUST KEEP IT ON MY COMPUTER, ALSO ON MY PHONE AND SEARCH FROM THERE, BUT IT'S FREE FOR ANY OF US THAT HAVE IT.
IT'S VERY LARGE SO I THINK IT'S A LOT EASIER DOING ELECTRONICALLY THAN TRY TO DO WITH PAPER BECAUSE I'VE TRIED IT BOTH WAYS.
>> THANKS. EVERYTHING IS FROM THE LDR? [OVERLAPPING]
>> WELL, GO AHEAD, MRS. [INAUDIBLE]
>> I THINK WHAT I'M HEARING THOUGH IS YES, THE LDR, LAND DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS, IT'S A HUGE DOCUMENT.
BUT EACH TIME A CASE IS PRESENTED TO THE COMMISSIONER, THERE WILL BE A STAFF REPORT ATTACHED TO IT, AND THE STAFF REPORT SHOULD NOT ONLY GIVE YOU THE SECTION AND THE ISSUE THAT THE PERSON IS APPEALING FROM, OR REQUESTING YOUR VARIANTS OF, OR THEIR SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR, AND YOU SHOULD GET THIS STAFF REPORT AT LEAST 3-5 DAYS BEFORE THE HEARING.
THAT SHOULD ALLOW A COMMISSION TO BECOME FAMILIAR WITH WHAT'S BEING DISCUSSED.
THAT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT ITEMS THAT CAN COME BEFORE THE COMMISSIONERS.
IT IS IMPERATIVE TO DEFINITELY READ THE STAFF REPORTS.
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTION, THEN THIS MAY BE A NICE LITTLE SEGUE INTO WALKING QUORUMS ACTUALLY.
BUT IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT IS BEING PRESENTED OR TO CLARIFY WHAT IS BEING PRESENTED, DEFINITELY REACH OUT TO STAFF SO THAT THEY CAN HOPEFULLY GET YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED AND UPRISE THE COMMISSIONERS.
WE RECEIVED THE COMMENT OR WE RECEIVED THE QUESTION, AND STAFF, THEY'LL MORE THAN LIKELY GIVE THE INFORMATION TO EVERYBODY ON THE COMMISSION SO THAT EVERYBODY'S ON THE SAME PAGE.
IT'S JUST LIKE GROWING UP IN SCHOOL.
DON'T BE AFRAID TO ASK A QUESTION BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION, I'M PRETTY SURE SOME OTHER COMMISSIONER HAS A QUESTION AS WELL.
THAT'S WHY STAFF WILL DISSEMINATE THE INFORMATION TO EVERYONE.
I HOPE THAT ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION.
>> EACH CASE HAS A STAFF MEMBER THAT'S ASSIGNED TO IT AND THEIR CONTACT INFORMATION IS ON THE BOTTOM OF THE FRONT PAGE OF THE STAFF REPORT.
>> YOU DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO SEARCH THE LDRS.
YOU CAN, BUT IT IS A HUGE DOCUMENT.
[LAUGHTER] BUT THE INFORMATION SHOULD BE PROVIDED TO YOU.
>> THAT'S OKAY. AS AN ATTORNEY, I LIKE TO BE ABLE TO KNOW THE TERRITORY THAT I'M EXPLORING RATHER THAN JUST ONE LITTLE PIECE OF INFORMATION.
THAT'S THE ONLY REASON I ASKED.
BUT YOU'VE GIVEN ME PLENTY OF INFORMATION ABOUT HOW TO ACCESS THAT SO AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, I'M SATISFIED. THANK YOU.
>> ABSOLUTELY. THE ONLY THING THAT WILL NOT BE IN THE STAFF REPORT IS A STAFF RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD.
THAT'S BECAUSE YOU GUYS ARE QUASI-JUDICIAL AND YOU MAKE
[00:25:04]
YOUR DETERMINATIONS BASED ON WHAT'S PRESENTED AT THE HEARING.>> ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? CATHERINE, YOU'RE AWESOME.
I THINK THEY ARE SAYING THAT YOU ARE WONDERFUL.
>> CHAIRMAN, DO YOU WANT TO SEGUE INTO WALKING QUORUMS?
GO AHEAD AND WE WOULD DISCUSS THAT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
I KNOW THAT A LOT OF US WILL CROSS EACH OTHER, AND I'M OKAY WITH SAYING HELLO, HAVING A COFFEE, OR ANYTHING ELSE, BUT I'M DEFINITELY TOLD PLEASE TRY AND TO STAY AWAY FROM ANY OTHER CITY BUSINESS WITH THE PEOPLE I'M DEALING WITH ON THE STAFF OR ACTUALLY ON THE STAFF AND ON THE BOARD, BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN I'M NOT OPEN FOR VISITING WITH ME AND MY WIFE OR WHATEVER COMES APPROPRIATE THERE.
IF YOU'D LIKE TO START OR GO AHEAD AND TALK ABOUT THIS.
>> I THINK PART OF THIS QUESTION OR THIS ISSUE CAME UP, AND IT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN IN THIS COMMISSION, BUT THE ISSUE CAME UP WITH ONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS WANTING TO MAKE SURE THAT THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS WERE GOING TO BE IN ATTENDANCE AT A HEARING AND WANTED TO REACH OUT TO THESE COMMISSIONERS.
IT WAS EXPLAINED TO THAT COMMISSIONER THAT IF THERE ARE ANY ITEMS THAT NEED TO BE DISCUSSED AMONGST THE COMMISSIONERS, OR INFORMATION GIVEN TO THE COMMISSIONERS, IT'S BEST TO GO THROUGH STAFF BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE WHAT WE CALL A WALKING QUORUM.
AS YOU KNOW, THE ZBA, JUST LIKE SOME OF ALL THE OTHER COMMISSIONS, THE LANDMARK COMMISSION, THE PLANNING COMMISSION, CITY COUNCIL, THIS IS CONSIDERED A GOVERNMENTAL BODY.
AS SUCH, THEY ARE UNDER THE PURVIEW OF THE TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT.
THAT MEANS THAT WHENEVER PUBLIC BUSINESS IS BEING DISCUSSED, WHENEVER THE GOVERNMENTAL BUSINESS, AND IN THIS CASE, THE CASES THAT ARE BEING PRESENTED BEFORE THE ZBA, WHENEVER THEY ARE BEING DISCUSSED, IT HAS TO BE DONE IN A PUBLIC FORUM.
I'M NOT GOING TO GET INTO THE HISTORY AS TO WHY PEOPLE FELT THAT THERE WERE SOME BACKDOOR DEALINGS MANY, MANY, MOONS AGO.
THE WALKING QUORUM ASPECT HAS CHANGED OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, ESPECIALLY SINCE WE HAVE GOTTEN MORE INTO SOCIAL MEDIA AND TECHNOLOGY, ETC.
SIMPLY, IF THERE IS A GOVERNMENT OF BUSINESS THAT'S BEING DISCUSSED, IF THERE'S A CASE THAT'S GOING TO BE PRESENTED BEFORE YOU, THE ONLY FORM THAT YOU CAN DISCUSS IT IS IN THIS TYPE OF FORUM.
YOU CAN ONLY DISCUSS IT IF THERE'S AT LEAST, FOR THIS CASE, FOUR FOLKS, MAKE A QUORUM.
I'M JUST GOING TO USE IT GENERALLY, YOU CAN'T CALL YOUR BUDDY AND SAY, "HEY, SUCH AND SUCH IS ON THE AGENDA.
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?" THAT IS AN ABSOLUTE NO-NO.
THE OTHER WAY THAT A WALKING QUORUM CAN ACTUALLY OCCUR IS THROUGH EMAILS AND SUCH.
AGAIN, IF IT'S PUBLIC BUSINESS, IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT HAS COME BEFORE THE ZBA, IT'S COMING UP BEFORE THE ZBA, IT CANNOT BE DISCUSSED.
WHEN A CASE IS CLOSED, AND TYPICALLY WE SAY WHEN A CASE IS FINALLY CLOSED WHEN THE TIMEFRAME FOR LET'S SAY, AN APPEAL HAS RUN, CAN YOU DISCUSS A MATTER? YES, YOU CAN. I WOULD STILL BE A LITTLE WORRIED ABOUT IT, BUT YES YOU CAN BECAUSE THAT ACTION IS NOT GOING TO BE RECEIVING ANY MORE PLAY.
IT'S OUT OF PLAY, IT'S DONE AND OVER WITH.
TYPICALLY, WE AS THE COMMISSIONERS, EVEN THOUGH THE CASE MAYBE FINAL DAY OF THE HEARING TO WAIT UNTIL AFTER ALL TIMEFRAME FOR ANY TYPE OF APPEAL OR ANY OTHER ACTION HAS RUN SO YOU DON'T RUN AFOUL OF A WALKING QUORUM.
WALKING QUORUMS OR VIOLATIONS OF THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT CAN RUN THE GAMUT TO CLASS C, POSSIBLY EVEN CLASS B, MISDEMEANORS, FINES, CITATIONS.
WE DON'T HAVE TO GO DOWN THAT WAY RIGHT NOW.
[00:30:03]
THIS IS JUST A SIMPLE IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT, HEY, IF I ASK SOMEBODY, IF GO SOMEWHERE, IF I DO SOMETHING AND THERE'RE FOLKS ARE THERE, IS THIS A WALKING QUORUM? YOU CAN ALWAYS CONTACT MY DEPARTMENT OR EVEN CATHERINE, TO SAY, "I WAS IN THIS SITUATION OR MAYBE IN THIS POTENTIAL SITUATION.IS THIS A WALKING QUORUM OR IS THIS A VIOLATION OF THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT?" WE WILL BE GLAD TO ADVISE YOU AS BEST WE CAN WHETHER OR NOT THAT SITUATION WOULD PUT YOU IN JEOPARDY.
THIS IS A SMALL ISLAND, THERE'RE GOING TO BE SITUATIONS WHERE YOU MAY COME IN CONTACT FROM THE GROCERY STORE TO A BANQUETTE DINNER.
CLEARLY, THOSE SITUATIONS CANNOT BE HELPED, AND MY ROLE IS NOT TO SAY DON'T EVER GO OUT IN PUBLIC [LAUGHTER] BECAUSE THERE MAY BE A VIOLATION.
IT'S JUST A MATTER OF BEING COGNIZANT, AGAIN, OF WHAT EITHER HAS COME BEFORE YOU IN AN AGENDA TYPE SITUATION OR YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD BE COMING TOWARDS YOU IN AGENDA TYPE SITUATION THAT CANNOT BE DISCUSSED.
>> CATHERINE, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD TO THAT? YOU'RE CONFIDENT.
>> NO, I THINK THAT SOUNDS GREAT.
IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE DISSEMINATED TO THE GROUP, YOU CAN JUST SEND IT TO STAFF AND THEN WE'LL SEND IT OUT.
WE CAN ACCESS THE CONDUIT FOR THE COMMISSION.
WHENEVER WE EMAIL THE COMMISSION WE BLIND COPY THE COMMISSIONERS.
YOU'LL SEE THAT STAFF EMAILS ARE THERE MYSELF, TIM, DON GLYWASKY WHO IS THE CITY ATTORNEY ARE DISPLAYED.
BUT YOUR EMAILS ARE ALL IN THE BLIND CC SECTION.
BUT YOU CAN'T ACCIDENTALLY REPLY ALL AND ADDRESS THE ENTIRE COMMISSION.
THE STAFF IS LOOKING OUT FOR YOU IN THOSE REPORTS.
>> RIGHT. I GUESS YOU WORK REQUIREMENT IS ALMOST A MISNOMER BECAUSE YOU THINK THAT IT'S FOR PEOPLE GETTING TOGETHER TO DISCUSS THE SITUATION.
I CONSIDER WORKING FOR MORE THAN TWO.
YOU AND ANOTHER COMMISSIONER, IF YOU ALL ARE TALKING ABOUT OR DISCUSSING, I CONSIDER THAT A WORKING QUORUM AND SHOULDN'T BE DONE.
IT SHOULDN'T BE DONE IN THIS TYPE OF SETTING.
ANY QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS REGARDING THAT.
>> I WILL SAY A LITTLE BIT ABOUT INVESTIGATING CASES THAT ARE ON THE AGENDA.
THIS IS A BOARD THAT SHOULD NOT GO OUT AND DO THEIR OWN INVESTIGATION ON A MATTER THAT'S BEING PRESENTED TO THEM.
THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT IF THE SITUATION CONCERNS A PROPERTY BESIDES YOUR HOUSE, CAN YOU BRING THAT INFORMATION [LAUGHTER] TO THE COMMISSIONERS? DEPENDING UPON WHAT YOU BRING IN SHORE.
BUT YOU GUYS DO NOT INDEPENDENTLY GO OUT AND RESEARCH THE CASES THAT ARE BROUGHT BEFORE YOU.
YOU REALLY ARE THERE TO DETERMINE THE CASE BASED ON WHAT IS SOLELY BROUGHT TO YOUR ATTENTION DURING THE HEARING?
THAT BRINGS UP ONE OTHER THING THAT'S HAPPENED TO ME TWICE IN THE SEVERAL YEARS I'VE BEEN DOING THAT, AND THAT IS YOU GET A CALL FROM SOMEONE WHO FINDS OUT THE NAMES OF THE FOLKS ON THE BOARD AND CALLS YOU TO TRY TO DISCUSS THE CASE.
>> YES. I'M ASSUMING YOU WANT TO KNOW THE BEST WAY TO RESPOND TO THAT, IS TO TELL THAT PERSON YOU CAN'T RESPOND TO THEM AND TO REFER THEM TO CITY STAFF.
>> THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED [OVERLAPPING]
>> I'M SORRY. I SAID THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED HERE COUPLE OF YEARS AGO OR IN THE PAST, WHERE SOMEBODY THAT USED TO HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE CITY CAME UP AND GIVE ME ALL THEIR OPINIONS AND THEIR, THIS IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE TYPE THING.
I WAS TRYING NOT TO BE RUDE, BUT AFTERWARDS IT MADE ME FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE BECAUSE I WASN'T GOING TO LET IT AFFECT ME ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
BUT THAT'S WHEN I ACTUALLY CONTACTED MR. WEATHER AND SAID, LOOK, THIS HAPPENED AND I FELT RELIEVED IN FACT THAT I'VE GOT THIS OFF MY CHEST.
THAT'S THE WAY I HANDLED IT. WAS THERE ANY BETTER WAY?
>> I THINK THAT FOLKS THAT YOU DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW IS PROBABLY EASIER JUST TO SAY,
[00:35:02]
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I CAN'T DISCUSS IT AND KEEP IT SIMPLE, AND THEN AGAIN, REFER THAT CITY STAFF.I THINK IT'S HARDER WHEN IT'S PEOPLE THAT YOU KNOW THOUGH.
IT'S ALWAYS HARD TO TELL FOLKS THAT YOU KNOW, NO.
BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO.
ANY PERSON WHO UNDERSTANDS THE ROLE OF ANYONE IN PUBLIC OFFICE SHOULD RECOGNIZE THAT YOU'RE NOT CROSSING A BOUNDARY.
THEY CAN EITHER ACCEPT IT OR NOT, BUT YOU'RE NOT CROSSING THAT BOUNDARY.
CATHERINE, YOUR THOUGHTS OF FOLKS CONTACTING YOU AND IT GOES BOTH WAYS.
PEOPLE HAVE CONTACTED I'M SURE STAFF COMPLAINING ABOUT THE DECISIONS THAT THE COMMISSIONER HAS MADE, ETC.
WHAT'S THE BEST WAY? THE BEST DECISION IS A DECISION THAT'S MADE THOUGHTFULLY BY THE COMMISSION.
NOT EVERYONE NECESSARILY WILL BE HAPPY WITH IT.
YOUR JOB IS NOT TO PLEASE THE APPLICANT OR THE CITY.
YOUR ROLE IS REALLY TO MAKE THE BEST DECISION BASED ON THE EVIDENCE AND BASED ON WHAT'S BEING PRESENTED.
NOT EVERYBODY IS GOING TO BE HAPPY.
THAT'S WHY IT'S AN APPEAL BOARD.
>> OF COURSE THEY'RE NOT. BUT IF PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THEY'VE BEEN TREATED FAIRLY AND THAT EVERYBODY HAS BEEN TREATED THE SAME WAY, THEN THEY'LL UNDERSTAND.
PEOPLE GET LESS OF THAT IF THEY FEEL LIKE THEY HAVEN'T BEEN SINGLED OUT AND THAT EVERYONE'S BEING TREATED THE SAME WAY.
>> THAT'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO FOLLOW THE FORMAT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
THE CONSISTENCY OF THE LANGUAGE, THE CONSISTENCY OF GOING THROUGH AND MAKING THAT RULING IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE RECEIVED, IF IT EVER ENDS UP IN A HIGHER COURT SETTING.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR SITUATIONS THAT ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS?
>> NO. THINK WE COVERED QUITE A BIT, AND BARELY ON TIME.
>> HOW ABOUT THAT? DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD THOUGH? TO ANY OF THIS.
JUST FEEL FREE TO NOTE THAT THE STAFF IS THERE FOR US AND THEY HELPED ME TREMENDOUSLY OVER THE YEARS AND FEEL FREE TO GO TO THEM AND ARRAIGN ANY QUESTIONS LIKE THIS OR JUST SOME WAY TO KIND OF HEAD IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
I JUST WANT TO THANK EVERYBODY FOR COMING TODAY.
IF NOT, I ASSUME EVERYBODY IS GIVEN 15 MINUTES AND COME BACK FOR THE MEETING.
>> IT WILL BE THE SAME LINK FOR THE FOUR O'CLOCK MEETING.
IF YOU'D LIKE TO SIGN OUT HERE, YOU CAN OR YOU CAN JUST MUTE YOURSELF AND TURN YOUR VIDEOS OFF.
YOUR CAMERAS OFF AND THEN RESTART AT FOUR.
>> OKAY. IF NOBODY GOT ANYTHING ELSE, I'D LIKE TO ADJOURN THIS MEETING.
ANYBODY? NO. THANK YOU ALL AND I'LL SEE YOU ALL BACK HERE AT AT FOUR O'CLOCK. THANK YOU.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.